I start training for Iraq

I tend to agree with this... and I've realized that he operates from orders, not morals. Therefore, there's no point in anyone discussing it at all and I'm wondering what the agenda of "wave owls" is by starting the topic in the first place, seeing as he KNOWS that the lion's share of people reading his post are anti-war and feel VERY strongly about our positions... and some will be more than passionate about expressing our dissent in his thread. Judging from his own responses I'd guess that the purpose is to whip us all into a frenzy for the purpose of his entertainment. I've seen him and a few other selected participants drag the bait across repeatedly, spewing the pro-war propaganda for the purpose of a good laugh when the predictable passionate objections to the course of action.

I can certainly respect one's decision to join the armed forces for whatever number of reasons they made the decision but much of the rhetoric here has been downright contemptuous of those who dare voice their opposition to the crime being perpetrated in Iraq. The manner in which "wave owls" has chosen to relish his participation in the violence being perpetrated by the armed forces in which he has so glibly enlisted is blatantly disrespectful of what many at this site stand for.

 

I was too lazy to read all 30 pages of this thread but in the OP's sig it says that war ended slavery. this is so far from the truth I cant imagine how he thought this up. Slavery was ended in many european nations without war before it was outlawed in the U.S. furthermore Slavery is still prevalent in many areas in this world and war is by no means the the way to end it. As for communism, it ended itself war didn't end it either.

 

well this follows on from some of my previous thoughts on this site


in theory a government sends soldiers to war , soldiers don't send themselves off to war to attack other countries.

the problem with the american government at the moment is that

1 no war has actually been declared, by the rules of the game you can't do this.

2 they decided to not play by the rules because they knew that
a:the cause for the "war" had no basis in truth.
b: because of this the geneva convention couldn't be followed.

3 the government is no longer part of a constitutional democratic system, the constitution has been flouted many times. essentially the original system of government has been overthrown by the military with the help of the mainstream religious authorities of america. with kennedys assassination by lone gunmen (he had more bullet holes in them than physically possible), the americans have been slowly waking up to the nightmare that comes with democracy changing from a oligarchy/ theocracy, moving onto a tyranny.

its all in history, the athenians created themselves the "peloponnesian war" because they wanted to project more military presence (and the economic power from it) within the mediterranean. finally they were worn down, the one of two superpowers of the region finally went into destruct. heres one example.....






"Thucydides called the Sicilian Expedition the "greatest action" in Greek history:

To the victors the most brilliant of successes, to the vanquished the most calamitous of defeats; for they were utterly and entirely defeated; their sufferings were on an enormous scale; their losses were, as they say, total; army, navy, everything was destroyed, and, out of many, only a few returned. So ended the events in Sicily.8 ​

The news of the destruction of the Sicilian Expedition stunned Athens. The Athenians correctly feared that the disaster in Sicily would inspire revolts throughout their empire and lead to redoubled efforts by the Peloponnesians. Open war with Sparta had broken out again earlier that year (413) when King Agis, tired of suffering raids on Laconia without retaliation, invaded Attica for the first time since 425. This time, however, he constructed a fort at Decelea (near Oropus), giving the Athenians a taste of their own medicine. For the rest of the war, the Peloponnesian garrison of Decelea wore down Athenian morale with constant raids and provided refuge for over 20,000 runaway slaves"




any country devoting so much time to war ultimately goes into destruct from within and without, eventually you annoy so many people you have open revolt from every quarter. a democratic instituition cannot survive in a continuous state of war, which leads to other interesting questions...

 

The OP hasn't been to a war zone. He hasn't seen any of his best friends die. He hasn't had to deal with the reality of living with a bad judgment and murdered an innocent civilian.

I hope he never get's educated in those things, but it's likely he will face the reality of war. Seems like a fun game now. My sympathies for the day reality hits.

 

well this is another consideration that perhaps we will see played out in the next couple of months. war to a young person does seem like fun, this is why recruiters target them, they are easy targets.

anyone who's seen the sniper footage from iraq tells you that american soldiers standing around in public are open to headshots or bombs. what you never see very much of is the aftermath, what happens to someone who survives? what about the disability and marriage breakup? if you are not in a relationship then thats even better, you can be dumped back at the parents house when the smoke clears. as you lay in the darkness nursing the throbbing pain what goes through your head?

when armies are given incompetent orders and led into an ambush with the help of the generals to satisfy the longterm goals of agents unknown what is anyone meant to think ?

 

This is true, it has already happened to so many soliders who are current memebers of Iraq Veterans Agaisnt the War (IVAW). I haven't posted on this thread for a while because I know that I will most likely not change his mind, only time and experience can do that.

 

a

 

i say right as soon as you go in you start singing "Fixin To Die Rag" itll be sure to piss people off

 

oh yeah and actually fix to die for no cause sept a dumb redneck

 

To the OP: I think i remember you from when i used to come on like 18 months ago and i used to go off at you. All i have to say now is two things. Firstly, don't go thinking it will be an adventure and exiting because it will be hell as you cannot possible imagine. Secondly, if you have friends here and wish to tell them what you are doing with your life, please email them or something. I respect your rights to say your views, but why the hell would you say them on a "hippy" website, other than to insult people. That is all

 

Seen much battle?

 

sometimes the reality of an event can be seen from the outcome.

look at eisenhower

"As recognition of his senior position in the Allied command, on December 20, 1944, he was promoted to General of the Army equivalent to the rank of Field Marshal in most European armies. In this and the previous high commands he held, Eisenhower showed his great talents for leadership and diplomacy. Although he had never seen action himself, he won the respect of front-line commanders. He dealt skillfully with difficult subordinates such as Omar Bradley and Patton, and allies such as Winston Churchill".....

from wikipedia

eisenhower was however at least close to where the fighting was taking place and ageneral that got results, which is more than be said for the characters that inhabitat the halls of power today.

open combat is very much a game of chance, when rounds come whizzing over your head, the best place to be is behind something thick and heavy regardless of what you may learn from the movies.

 

Nope. Are you insinuating that I can't have an idea of what it will be like if i havn't?