If the Christian God is truly all knowing...

I believe perfection is an innate idea that is fundamentally built into our psyche. Although the mind cannot fully grasp it, the idea of perfection is still there, lurking beneath the surface. I can go into this more later if you would like, but I'm about to leave right now.

Man is inherently a part of Nature as much as a tree or a bird or a beetle. Man is fulfilling it's role just as much as anything else. However, if "fulfilling a role" is the definition of perfection, then our mental understandings of perfection are drastically different.

 

Most organisms suffer from a huge range of diseases, are susceptible to injury, can be rendered extinct by natural phenomena...?

But then, you'll say that they're supposed to, and that I shouldn't try to second-guess God's intentions, correct?

The whole notion of "perfection" is fatuous unless you pre-define the cause for which things must be perfect.

 

In that blade of grass, you would see love and purpose. He created the grass for us, to enjoy, to lay in. God is Love.

 

it all plays a role.
Do you believe that God exists?

 

I accept the possibility of a creator, but not of any of the ones described in human myths that I have encountered.

I am skeptical of claims made about the workings of God. Yours is unfalsifiable, and thus can either be believed or believed, but never evidenced or "disevidenced" (word?).

 

I just read the first post, so I don't know if this has already been said.

If God really is God (all-knowing, all-powerfull...etc.) then God is plenty big enough to give us true free will and still hold us accountable for our use of our free will.

Yes, the one true God does have a great plan (according to the Bible) and God will righteously judge man's every use of man's free will.

How would man's free will leave God in the dark???

 

why does god even need a plan? what is he planning? why doesnt he just do whatever hes planning? im sure he doesnt need our help. hes god, he can do anything, whats he waiting for?

 

This might sound a bit like I’m quibbling but God doesn’t plan, he purposes. A plan generally is meant to be followed to the letter and if something goes wrong, then you have to change your plan. God’s “Plans” could never go wrong and thus would remove the possibility of free will. Thus God only purposes, that leaves the way open to take any course of action he wants in order to accomplish his purposes.

Once again he is not planning anything but his purpose for the earth is for the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve to live forever on a paradise earth.

He is, it is just taking longer than some think it should.

No, he doesn’t.

For one thing, he’s waiting for men to use their free will and make up their minds and choose what side they want to be on.

 

'God' is omniscient and omnipotent (allegedly) so he knows all and has the power to do anything he wants.

Can omniscient God, who
Knows the future, find
The omnipotence to
Change his future mind?

Omniscience and omnipotence are mutually incompatible. If God is omniscient, he must already know how he is going to intervene to change the course of history using his omnipotence. But that means he can't change his mind about his intervention, which means he is not omnipotent.

God is not immune to criticism or regress.

 

!

 

The problem is with your definition of the word omniscient. Instead of meaning that he knows all, it just means that he has the ability to know anything he wants to know. Thus omniscience and omnipotence are not mutually incompatible.

 

Actually the problem is that God doesn't exist so you can't actually define something that isn't real. Thus, there are so many different interpretations and definitions, based on faith, not evidence that it become completely illogical and meaningless. It's not my definition of omnitpotence, It's the Christian definition of what God is and what he can do. Dispute them and the dictionary.

'God is most often conceived of as the supernatural creator and overseer of the universe. Theologians have ascribed a variety of attributes to the many different conceptions of God. The most common among these include omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, omnibenevolence (perfect goodness)'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

 

There is more to heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy ….

 

God knows the beginning from the end. he is the alpha and the omega. to understand the complexity of his power is no easy task. no earthly being could ever come close! we understand his character, his word (sort of), his mission for our life.. but to understand his power is absolutely knee-buckling. he is no zeuss throwing lightning bults from heaven. he is a man who sees everything, knows everything, and intercedes in our lifes. he gave us free will..and he gave it so we could excersize it. he plans our lifes according to our choice.. he is ALWAYS ahead of us. we dont know how far ahead tho. maybe his path for our life changes each time we choose something different..but i dont believe in a robot god who predestines some to heaven and some to hell. from my own understanding, we all have the oppurtunity for salvation..its our choice to choose.

 

When people say "we as human beings can't come close to understand God" it is just the dieing of God and our relationship with him.

In ancient times.. God was someone to relate to.. for them to understand and to give reason to life.

Saying that we can't possibly understand God is just a cop-out for the modern day rational thinking and doubt that challenges theism.

"Oh no! Those pesky atheists are using logic! Lets say that God is beyond logic so that we don't have to counter-argue"

If God is beyond our comprehension then we are not even responsible for trying to accept him or follow the bible. He is beyond what we know and we can therefore not understand him. If we cannot understand a God we don't have to/can't follow or accept him.

When people say that God is beyond comprehension they are one step closer to Agnosticism. Agnostics don't deny that a God could exist.. but they deny that we can know that he exists. Much like you claim we can't understand how he works.

You're getting the right idea.. we are too limited to understand God... therefore we have no proof of a God so it is best to not believe.

 

Also, if God knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen.. it means that there is such thing as fate. If he knows what i will eat tomorrow for breakfast and how i will die.. then i am destined to fulfill the prophecy.

Fate and Free Will are not compatible.
Therefore.. if God knows what will happen to me.. i can't have free will... and so Eve did not choose to eat the apple.

 

I agree. God will let himself be known by those who seek him. But as you say for one reason or another people no longer are willing to do the work necessary to know God.

I truly hate the saying; God works in mysterious ways.

No he doesn’t, most of the time it’s just that we haven’t taken the time to figure out his ways. Thinking is a thing of the past for most people nowadays, no wonder so many people don’t want to discuss it; because then they’d have to, God forbid, think about it.

Now, that’s not to say that God’s understanding does not surpass man’s, but even that does not mean that man can not, some day, have full understanding as well.



PS It’s gotten to the point were I’ve lumped most atheists and theists together as non-thinkers.

I mean really, with their name calling and their; “there is no God” and “God works in mysterious ways” regurgitated phrases repeated ad nauseam, they’re really just trying to wear you down until you give up out of frustration, rather than having convinced anyone of their point of view.

Come on guys at least take the time to rephrase the worn out phases from time to time.

 

This is why I've said before that; although God has the ability to know everything, he refrains from using it in the case of individuals, so that individuals can have free will.

The second possibility is that perhaps God has the ability only to know what’s knowable and that would be everything that has happened and is happening but can only predict the future accurately for large groups but that accuracy diminishes as it narrows down to the individual thus allowing free will. This would be much like the concept of psychohistory found in the Foundation Novels by Isaac Asimov.

 

...

 

The way I see it, everything has a beginning, and everything has an end.

Perhaps God left the middle part up to the free will of the people.

It's the equivalent of being able to see the future, yet not change it because he has given humans free will.

L_S