If the Elections were tomorrow...?

Jesus isnt that enough of a difference between the two? Don't get locked into speaking rhetoric, find out some things.

 

First of all, I have researched, ask the people here who I have gotten information from privately and done my own personal research. Second, I base everything on individual issues, not even on the candidates themselves, but how they will vote on issues that are important to me. I have done much research and have kept a very open mind about the whole thing and I have still come to the conclusion that I should and will vote for Ralph Nader if given the opportunity. Don't assume you know me or what I'm about or how much research I've done just because I disagree with you.

This is pretty much the only thing I could find that might be considered unbiased since, I know the rest of the sites I have posted are from Nader. http://slate.msn.com/id/2096408#ContinueArticle

I suggest reading the whole article. It really sums up what I believe. And I just found it tonight, which surprised me that I've not stumbled upon it before.

There are two issue where you are absolutely correct, Kerry does have a good voting record on the environment, and we all know how Bush feels about that. So that is in fact a big difference. But is it enough? http://www.votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=113

Another difference is that most likely if Kerry were elected he would not impose another Patriot Act. Is he going to repeal the first one? Nader would. I believe that he wants the people under control just as much as Bush does. He and many others here will blame it on the fact that we are subject to terroism so we need to be kept "safe" but that is not why he will not repeal it. I don't see how he can tighten things up when it comes to homeland security the way he wants to and not infringe upon civil liberties. He can try, but I just don't see how.

However, I disagree that their foreign policy would be much different. And on that note, Kerry himself has stated that not only did he vote to go to Iraq, then change his mind when he realized that wasn't flying so well with those against the war, then recently changed his mind again and said he would have done the same thing, it was a good idea to invade Iraq. Not only that but he said he would have invaded without UN approval, just like Bush. So what exactly is the difference? And faulty US intelligence... that was his intelligence that was faulty, anyone with half a brain knew Bush and his men were lying, Kerry couldn't see that? Then I really don't trust him. Why didn't he do further research?

Education, are you kidding me!? He wants to send kids who haven't even learned how to think for themselves into the military so they can be broken down and brainwashed (because that is what happens when you are sent into the military) as a bribe for education! This makes me sick. I believe everyone should have access to a good education, that prepares them for the world, not standardized tests, not social class segregation, not telling kids, if you don't die in combat, we'll pay for you to go to community college. This is a personal thing, if you think it is a good idea (as my boyfriend does) then you should support it. I think it is a bad idea so this does not convince me that Kerry is better.

On healthcare and tax cuts, I just don't see it happening. He can say what he wants to get elected, but I do not see how his "plans" are feesible. How can he pay for healthcare for everyone, and cut taxes and make sure there is money left for S.S. I'm not the only one who doesn't think he can do it. Not only that, but we have a war to pay for and he still wants to deploy troops.

Not to mention the major issue: They are both run by corporations. And neither of them would hold the "real" power anyway. That is just the way it is. I believe that regardless of what Kerry might say he wants, he is run by money and corporations and he will do what is in the best interest for him, not necessarily you or me. Not only that, but he isn't the only one that would be "running things". Maybe you believe that he will do what is in your best interest. If you do believe that then vote for him. But I don't believe that.

Honestly, I think all politicians are pretty much corrupt in some way, and the plan is already set for how things will go regardless of who is front and center. All I want is the opportunity to have more choices, something that neither Bush or Kerry want. What are they afraid of? http://www.votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=106


This was also taken from Nader's site:

The following links are old, but they still get to the point on why I don't think that there is a big enough difference between Democrats and Republicans.
http://www.issues2000.org/default.htm

http://www.therealdifference.com/issues2.html

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/25/politics/campaign/25RECO.html?ex=1390366800&en=9e6c69acdd7de99f&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

Again, I would read the whole article. I still think he is too close to the middle for me.

 

You don't think the Democrats would do something like that? God, how naive! I think both parties are capable of a lot that most of us don't know about. To think it's limited to one party is so naive.

Don't you get it, both parties serve the same interests! They both are funded by the same corporations, whom they also serve.

Do you think Kerry is going to suddenly end US imperialism if elected? Please, don't say yes and make me laugh. I need to take a leak and I might piss myself.

You really need to wake up! I sense the same brainwashed mentality coming from you, that comes from many self-described Republicans - you're just at the other side of the spectrum, though no more enlightened, or informed for that matter.

 

If I had to vote tomorrow, I'd do ennie-meenie-miney-mo over Bush and Kerry, then I'd go out and get smashed so I can't remember who I voted for the next morning. I'm basically undecided at this point.

 

No, they wouldn't. I'm speaking only of the current parties in power. The Bush administration is the most evil administration ever. Stop looking up conspiracy theories and look at what this administration has done.

No. Untrue. The Bush Administration seves the rich and many industries that harm the environment. If you disagree, I'll have to conclude you are a wacko.
Sorry, but to reject anything a Democrat says just because they are a Democrat is as crazy as accepting anything a Democrat says just because they are a Democrat. The same goes for Republicans. I think you miss out on a lot of wisdom in your striving to be seen as a free-thinker.
I've studied and continue to study the current campaigns and I've concluded that Kerry would be better for the world.

Kerry will not start more unnecessary wars, he will be better on domestic issues and will not threaten civil liberties and will not waste more tax dollars.

You really need to wake up! I sense the same brainwashed mentality coming from you, that comes from many self-described Independents- you just think you're not on the same spectrum, though you're no more enlightened, or informed for that matter.

 

Eenie Meenie Miney Moe. I pick Moe. See, you can't go wrong with Moe!

 

greenthumb, and whomever else still refuses to believe that Kerry isn't our knight in shining armour.

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0421103

This I only came accross because I was looking for a rock the vote t-shirt simply because I don't really care who anyone votes for I just want more young people to vote and well I figured the best way to advertise that is slap a logo on my sexy body. hehehe

Seriously though, go to google, type in something like democrats against kerry, and see what happens.

The thing is many of you just believe what these candidates are saying they support now that they are in an election. And you believe everything good that you hear about a candidate but don't bother to look for the bad things. I guess I'm more cynical than that. I look for all of the bad in all of the candidates. I know Nader isn't perfect, sometimes I want to slap him. I know that the Green Party itself is flawed, at one point I walked away from it because of the flaws I found with it. But that will not solve anything.

Just try, I'm begging you, to think outside the box just a little bit.

I came accross other reports last night while researching for you guys some other things about Kerry's voting record and how he is constantly changing his stance on things, I didn't post them because I was afraid my post was too long, but either Saturday or Sunday I will get them from my pc and post them. That is why I don't like him. If he could choose something that he honestly believes in and stand up for it no matter what, then I might at least have some respect for him, but he is playing all of you. I'm not being mean or spiteful, I really want people to have all of the information available so they can make an informed decision. Sometimes I'd rather see someone say they are voting for Bush and they wholeheartedly believe in that lunatic, as opposed to people who say I'm voting for Kerry, because he is not Bush, and Bush is evil and we need to get him out of office. That is not how our forefathers inteneded for us to run this country. Its quite sad.

 

Excellent. My confidence in Kerry has increased! He has a great record on the issues that matter to me. So what are you trying to tell me?? Unless you are an idiot, I don't rule that out in these forums, you know what Bush's "record" is on the environment and the economy. The 2 issues I really care about and the deciding factor in my voting decision. Close behind is the war. I strongly feel Kerry will not start new wars and he'll get our troops home sooner, saving Iraqi lives, American lives, and our money.
I know you think you know it all, but you can't say for sure what Kerry will do in office. We can only speculate.

There are many Dems for Kerry too. There are some Republicans and conservatives against Bush. Whup-di-do!
I prefered Kucinich and Dean, but like you said, you can't walk away from a party as it will not solve anything. When I'm older and out of school I'm sure I'll get more involved in the Democratic party or the Green party and hopefully help the party get back on track. I do some things now, but I really don't have the time to get seriously involved.

The thing is, you're wrong. I know Kerry isn't the best possible president, but given the other choice, ....yeah I guess Kerry is pretty great.

And you're nagging me for doing the same thing with a diff. party.? Wow. Yeah, I don't know if I want to hear what you have to say anymore.

A Bush supporter at heart, I knew it. You must be sick in the head.

A great many things have not turned out the way our forefathers planned. The Bush Administration has made religion a part of the way our country is run, our forefathers certainly did not wish this.
No matter what, you know deep in your heart that Kerry is a step up from Bush. It's OK though, you don't have to admit it. When I vote for Kerry it is not due to my "not thinking outside the box", it'll be because I know how very devastating a second term of Bush would be.

 

I'm not crazy about Kerry either, but he has 18 years of experience on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he's lived and worked overseas, and he has combat experience. Bush has none of these at a time when we really need someone with some expertise in international affairs more than ever.

Bush and Kerry are almost opposites of each other in certain respects. Bush is said to be resolute about issues but doesn't have the intelligence and experience. Kerry surely has the expertise but is known to not be resolute about issues.

What's better? Someone who is resolute without experience or vice versa? Hard to say.

 

BUSH IS THE EVIL NAZI ANTICHRIST COME TO SCOURGE THE EARTH AND KERRY IS OUR SAVIOR COME TO PIERCE THINE DARKNESS WITH HIS SWORD OF UNFORGIVING LIGHT!

HEIL! HEIL! HEIL! HEIL!

 

or the other way around. Depends which side you're on.

 

As I've stated elsewhere, unless I feel that there's a damned good reason for me to do otherwise, I will be voting for Badnarik in November. For his submission to the VoteSmart questionnaire, Go to:

http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=MTX77838

Nader has unfortunately not been able to make it on the ballot in some very key states such as California, Missouri, Indiana and Georgia and the ballot status in states such as Illinois, Florida, Texas and Maryland is very much in question. David Cobb is not doing much better. Badnarik failed to make it on the ballot in (of all places) New Hampshire, and the situation in Oklahoma is questionable at the moment. The situations in Connecticut and Alabama are also pending. Everywhere else, he's on. Check to see which candidates will be on the ballot in your (respective) state(s). Go to:

http://www.ballot-access.org/2004/electoral.html

I STRONGLY advise against not voting! This is the only way you can have a say in how your government is run! True, I'm not satisfied with the way certain things are being run, but the only way that we can help change this is to become involved in current affairs in our communities, keeping abreast of the latest issues at hand and making sure that our elected officials stay accountable to us. There are groups who are trying to work against the fraud that has infested our elections. One site worth checking out is:

http://www.verifiedvoting.org

While I'm at it, I see that you're from Rochester, N.Y. If you can get the chance, I advise taking the trouble to travel to Albany while the state legislature is in session and monitor the activities. One of the things that I have done as a Libertarian activist here in Maryland is monitor the activities during the winter sessions on Monday nights. Sometimes I'll take a few activists with me. What we'll do is go talk with some of the legislators before they go to session (Obviously, it is wise get to know who's who). Then while we're in the Capitol, we may speak with lobbyists that share our opinion on a given issue and chat with them. When session starts, we'll go up to watch the proceedings in the gallery.

 

Can you read, or do you have the common disorder that most here have where they only believe what they want and refuse to actually hear anyone else out with an open mind. And you are a Demo what. Oh right a hypocrite that is it.

Btw, I'm not a Bush supporter at heart, I loathe the man, I'm not an idiot, nor have I ever once claimed to know everything. And I do know what Nader has done wrong, and I also know what the Green Party has done wrong, none of it as bad as Kerry. So as you run around saying "at least Kerry isn't Bush" I'm going to run around saying at least Nader isn't Kerry. How ya like them apples? And if you don't want to hear what I have to say, stop reading my posts, because I'm not going to stop posting, or believing in what I know is true because some kid on the internet refuses to open his mind and look at things the way they are not the way he wants them to be.

 

lol. Thank you. I've been waiting for this to come out. I love it.
I'm a she, and I see things quite clearly. Nader won't win, it's a wasted vote unless you are in a blue state. The current administration is criminal, they are criminals and deserve to be in prison. My vote will go towards getting them out and what will yours do? Forget it, voting doesn't matter, why don't you start living your ideals? I know you want to feel like you are really making a difference, but I'm sorry, you're not.
"not as bad as Kerry", "at least he's not Kerry", LOL. You poor thing. You see things like this come out when one is angry, I suggest you not post when in a fury, it looks bad.

I'm going to post a quote of yours here from earlier in this very thread, I'm not trying to make you look foolish, but I guess it can't be helped.

Well one of those issues is one of my 2 most important issues. Sooooo.....again, why should I not vote for Kerry?
You're off your rocker...

 

Hey speez, thanks for posting the good links to ballot access.

 

So you are a she... you've been waiting for that to come out, why not just say so? I know that Nader will not win. I never said I believed he would. However, I do not believe that voting with your heart and what you believe in is ever wasted. You would rather I didn't vote, good thing it isn't up to you, because last time I checked I have the right to vote, whether you agree with whom I'm voting for or not, that makes you look stupid, to tell someone not to vote because it isn't for the candidate you want. Like I said there is no way in hell you are a democrat if you believe this way. Sound to me more like you would rather tell everyone how to think and feel and what to do. And living my ideals. What makes you think I don't? I do everything that I believe in as far as my power will allow. I'm active in the local chapters of the Green Party here and Campus Greens. We attempt to teach people, we help in the community, I personally volunteer in a homeless shelter and at the local SPCA. I work on local campaigns here, ones that help find kids places to go after school and allow them to have safe places to play and be kids. I go into high schools after the recruiters come in and explain to kids that you can go to college without being tricked into going into the military. There are so many issues that I do live, I deal with every day, that is why I feel so strongly about things. It isn't just something I argue with people about over the internet, this is my life, and I'm sick of defending it to people. I am making a difference and I don't need some kid to tell me what they think about it. And what I posted, if you read (which I'm still not certain you know how to do), about "at least he isn't Kerry" was sarcasm. It was to mock everyone who doesn't have any real reason to vote for Kerry except that he isn't Bush. What part of that can you not comprehend? I'm not sure how else to explain it to you, if you refuse to understand that is your problem. And I'm really not sure how what I said makes me look foolish. How is agreeing with someone foolish? I have no problem admitting that there are some things about Kerry that are good. I'm not as closed minded as you. I never said I hated Kerry, I have always maintained that he is not as good as everyone is making him out to be. He is still a politician. And he is still just trying to win votes. All I want is for people to be informed. That is not too much to ask in my opinion. Ask Maggie Sugar and the others here who truely believe in Kerry. They have real valid reasons for wanting to vote for him. People who say "at least he isn't Bush" don't have a valid reason. That is the stupidest reason I've ever heard in my life. You look foolish because you want to vote for someone based on two issues. Do you understand that there is a lot more at stake here than 2 issues. And if you really cared about the environment you wouldn't compare Kerry to Bush, because they are obvious opposites, you could however attempt to compare Kerry and his plan to Nader's plan, and you would see that Kerry does indeed fall short. That in a nutshell tells you why you should not vote for Kerry. But as I've always said, I don't care who people vote for. I never came here to tell you or anyone else not to vote because you are not voting for who I say you should vote for, like you are doing. What my entire point (because again you can't read) is that instead of believing every little bit of positive information that comes out about Kerry, instead of people posting here what he "claims" he is going to do (even though half of it is not even feesible or logical, ie tax cuts and healthcare) why not look at what he has done, even recently. What I said was don't believe everything a candidate tells you. I don't. As much as I dig Nader, I don't believe everything he says. But you on the other hand, believe the whole pile of shit that Kerry shoves down your throat. I don't understand why. Why can you just for 3 minutes entertain the idea that he might not be able to do what he wants to do, or he might just be telling you what you want to hear because this is an election. I've got no problem with you voting for Kerry, all that I ask is the same respect as I vote for Nader. Apparently that is too much to ask from those of your ilk. You don't even bother to try to learn so I'm wasting my breath.

 

I neeed you to answer me a question deadbear, and I am not trying to be rude.

Why are you goign to vote for someone who right now, in this reality, has no chance of winning?

 

Because he is who I want to win and we should all be voting for who we think can represent us to the fullest, not who everyone else is voting for. If you were to go out to eat, do you order what you want, or what everyone else is having?

People look at me like I've got horns coming out of my head and I think its everyone else who is being pretty strange about this. I don't really look at who has the best chance of winning just so I can be a frontrunner and be on the winning team. (I'm a Philly fan, we never win anything).

I vote for the person who I think can, and will make the most difference and represent me and my best interest. I think it is pretty simplistic. And I bet if everyone did that, Nader would have a chance. But alas, people are afraid, and I don't blame them for that I blame the present situation and the media for that.

 

lol, well said. I have to say that I agree with you, so you aren't going crazy.

If people could just get it out of their heads that you have to vote between the 2 parties or you're wasting your vote maybe we can start seeing some change. The problem is, though, money talks....it's been that way for a long time. Leaders have always been rich, so we get it in our heads that we need some aristocratic prep school moneybags to be our leader.

A real democracy would work much better if the people representing thier nation knew what it was like to actually lead a normal american life.