If you do not believe in God, you must not have read the Bible

In the case of different churches it seems it would be subjective. If I would still be holding on to my christian roots (protestantism, which at least in my country alone is splintered in many different kind of churches) I could not be bothered to see protestant 'black socks', catholics or orthodox christians as liars or even more serious: heretics... (thinking about the poor cathars in the dark ages of which the dutch word for heretic is based on but who seemed pretty christian to me).

 

Subjective? Perhaps but it is Jesus who decides not us, although Jesus did give us signs to look for so we can identify true Christianity when we see it.

 

As a matter of fact, their beliefs were similar to those of OWB. They were Arians, and that was enough basis for the Trinitarian majority to slaughter them in the name of the Prince of Peace. The term "liar" is a bit strong for people who sincerely hold beliefs that are different from others based on their interpretation of highly ambiguous scriptures. The typical Chrisitian solution has been to proclaim one's own beliefs right and all others wrong, and then duke it out to see who is right. Jesus gave us a test for spotting false prophets. We'll know them by their fruits. I submit that a view of Christianity that condones and rationalizes genocide, slavery, subordination of women, and homophobia; rejects objective scholarship, independent rational thinking, and any scientific knowledge that challenges Bronze Age scriptures; and suggests that all contrary views are lies, will produce fruits of intolerance, hatred, violence, poverty, and misery.

 

I guess I should thank you for showing that people who believe much of what I believe were not involved in torturing and slaughtering others.

I figure that Trinitarians, still the majority, haven't changed much over the years and will probably will come for me one day.

 

I'm afraid I got my heresies mixed up. The Cathars or Albigensians were Gnostics, who believed that the world was created by an evil Demiurge, that the things of this world were evil, and that Jesus could not have been incarnate because that would have meant he was part of the evil, material world. But you're still off the hook as far as the torturing is concerned.

 

Okay but you would still find it difficult to find any group in the past that believes most of what I believe, that killed or tortured for their beliefs. In fact it seems that it was mostly Trinitraians that thought it was okay to kill or torture for their beliefs.

 

That's just scapegoating.

The ones who killed or tortured for their beliefs also had two hands (mostly), two feet (mostly), two eyes, two ears, and a nose, and a mouth. The bad guys usually had a head and a body. They also had belly buttons and, often, testicles and a weiner. Some of them may have also had a vagina, I'm quite certain.

Demonizing anyone who believes that God is Triune is really pretty desperate. Maybe this is the modern way to "kill". Discrediting those you disagree with, accusing them of a history of mayhem based on one facet of their faith.

It's actually very clever, but misdirected.

It's just another way of objectifying God, keeping Him in a tidy, non-experiential state far away in the heavens. If God had not gone through a process to impart Himself into man, then surely God is still in the heavens, and man left without any hope of an organic, dynamic, vital regeneration, sanctification, transformation, conformation, or glorification. Man is left to "work on his behavior", rather than experience, enjoy and partake of the spiritual blessings of the Father, manifested in the Son, conveyed by the Spirit. This kind of subjective, experienceable God is nullified by your "oneness dogma". This is why the Jehovah's Witnesses are aberrant in their teaching, because they deny the divinity of the Son. To them, and so many other works-focused groups, we are just waiting and wanting, working on our righteousness until He returns to reward the "faithful". Until that time, God is in the heavens, and we, well, we are just sorta outta luck. "Grace" is a meaningless term, having something to do with having received a rhetorical "gift", but no immediate help.

Personally, I choose rather to enjoy the Triune God. The Father, Son, and Spirit are all within my experience and the factors in my daily, moment by moment salvation.

Check out the symbolism of the type referred to by Jesus in John 1:51:

Here's a footnote concerning this reference.

And regarding Christ' dual nature,,

 

All an interesting diversion but these ones didn't kill and torture because they had hands, feet, eyes, ears, a nose and a mouth. They killed and tortured because they believed in the Trinity and the ones they killed and tortured did not, make of it what you will.

 

Were you there?

Did you personally interview any during this time?

How many savages did you find?

Have you reported them to the proper authorities?

What other news do you have of this,,this "Trinity",,(scoff scoff, guffaw,,)

 

Very funny, because I wasn't there it didn't happen. :smilielol5:

 

No. I didn't say that, now did I?


But your assumed authority in the matter comes into question.



You could use a bit of a brush-up on basic logic, and topology.

If all the members of set A intersect with all the members of set B, one could justifiably say that set A and set B are equivalent sets.

However, if set A and set B only intersect partially, one could not say that set A is equivalent to set B.

You seem to be implying that what you call "Trinitarians" are predisposed to violence, and therefore to be condemned. It's a false conclusion based on your available facts.

You fail. (thought I'd throw that in there, since this is the internet,,haha)

 

Then perhaps you can explain why people who worshiped the Trinity would get involved in something so horrible as the Inquisition? One would think that their god would have taught them better than that.

Also can you point to any group of non-trinitarians that joined the Trinitarians in the torture and killing of the Inquisition?

 

Again, you are making things muddy here. You remind me of a musical term that begins with the letter "r", continues for four more letters that rhyme with "geetar", and ends in the letter "d". I think musically it means to slow down.

You seem to have been there, but I know that you weren't, so it follows that all of this "passion" about "Trinitarians", and their evil spawn is merely a political ploy to create a sense of credulity to your "authority" in the scriptures. You play on popular opinion, concerning Christians in general, and spin it to the pleasure of your target demographic, stirring up hate "specifically" against those you define as "Trinitarians", scapegoating them in specific for all the evils present in all of christendom.

You're very definitely filtering things. I wonder why, and suspect there is an underlying reason somewhere in your being. You're doing what is called "broadbrushing", and in the process, propagating an inaccuracy. The problem wasn't "Trinitarianism", at it's root. The problem is with with dependence on political and military might.

I would even say that what most people think "Trinitarianism" is today, is really a form of "Tritheism" instead. It would seem to them that the "3" of the Godhead are somehow more significant than the "1". They could go on all day about "The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost",,,Let me tell you, God is no "ghost". Such weirdness is so common these days,,with "Jesus" imprinted on "the wall", on "the napkin",,on a "slice of bread",,

The Triune God is not a subject for debate, but our portion, for our enjoyment and supply, for our satisfaction and nourishment. "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." "He that eateth Me, even he shall live because of Me."

Eating and drinking. Ever notice just how much eating and drinking is involved in the entire bible?

From John 7:

The problem arises when one makes doctrines out of spiritual fact. Doctrines have no significant weight. They are only doctrines. Spiritual fact is backed up by God Himself, and is a factor in every cell and molecule in our body, since the creation came into being through Christ, and with Christ as the over-riding element that holds all things together.

That this Christ is God's manifestation, and the incarnation the complete God is not in question, to me. That Christ comes to me, bringing me His riches is not in question to me. That He does so by the Spirit is also not in question to me. It just makes sense. And you don't. I'm just being sincere with you.

You remind me of someone hawking something in the marketplace, trying to get others to buy it. It's an absurdity.

You seem to think that anyone, throughout history, who used the terms "Father, Son, and Spirit", are aberrant, and that, to me, is to ignore the bible. The Father, Son, and Spirit are seen throughout the bible, represented in the Old Testament by such prefigures as "Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob". Abraham represents the Father as the source. Isaac represents the Son, who simply receives from the Father, and Jacob, of course he represents the Spirit and the power of the Spirit's transformation. The lampstand, in the sanctuary, also represents the Father, as the gold, the Son, as the shape, and the Spirit, as the oil supplying the flame, which brings in light. In the New Jerusalem we have the Father, represented by the street of gold, the Son, represented by the Lamb on the throne, and the Spirit, represented by the flowing river.

So, take it or leave it, it's there. But as I said before, the U.S.Marine manual from Guantanamo Bay doesn't have written instructions on detailed use of the latrine, and the bible doesn't spell out in specific a spiritual fact that is obvious to any dedicated reader of the bible, concerning the nature of God.

But like I said, take it,,or leave it. It's up to you. Far be it from me to make attempts to convince you otherwise. That's not my job. I'm enjoying the peace of God, and that's all that matters to me at this time.

 

And you say I'm making things muddy here. All your rhetoric and you don't seem to able to answer these two simple questions that I asked;


"Then perhaps you can explain why people who worshiped the Trinity would get involved in something so horrible as the Inquisition?

Also can you point to any group of non-trinitarians that joined the Trinitarians in the torture and killing of the Inquisition?"

Why is that? I say that it you that wants things muddy, so you can cover up the fact the Trinity is not a Bible teaching.

While you're at it, perhaps you can explain why the Jews, God's people for thousands of years, never believed in or worshiped a triune God?

 

because it happened so long ago, people had pack mentality. Much like they do today, but more extreme. Same pack mentality that nailed Jesus..

really just a bunch of unruly people with about as much intelligence together today as group of 2nd graders..

Im sure they were not smarter than 5th graders..

 

Long ago? More extreme? The Nazis were not so long ago and about as extreme as it gets and I can point to more recent examples if you wish.

As for not smarter than 5th graders, the Nazi used the "advanced" ideas of genetics and evolution to support their concept of a "super man" and the "master race".

 

Yes, but they were still stupid. And stung out on Methamphetamine . 9 times out of 10, you can see it in their eyes. Compared to pictures of people today with Methamphetamine psychosis ..

 

Meth Heads, hey? That would explain a lot and it's not like we have Meth Heads around any more.

 

Hopefully the Methheads they do have locked up find Jesus, or some other spiritual foundation. Or just kill themselves in prison and save the world the misery..

 

When the Arian Vandals invaded Roman Africa in 429 CE, they tortured and killed Trinitarians (whom they regarded as heretics) in large numbers. Church property was confiscated, and thousands of Catholics were expelled.