"I'm not a feminist but..."

RE: it was the feminist movement that spurred the legal changes in our society that enabled women to leave dangerous situations. i'm sorry you can't appreciate that.

What's interesting is that these same groups - not having any kind of interest in human rights but simply their own advancement - get critiqued even from within. Gay groups get lambasted for having a race glass ceiling for example.

RE: i may be wrong, but i don't think title 9 says that you have to "find a girl equally as competitive" as every guy who wants to play a sport.

WRONG. It means that you must have equal numbers of boys and girls. And because most girls do not WANT to be crashing around on a field - it means that if only 300 girls show up, only 300 slots for men are made available. It is a literal quota system. And like police departments who have hiring problems when they don't have 400 candidates from Community X (an ethnicity that considers police work the same as sewage work or grave digging, e.g. undesirable) and almost noone applies for the job, when you say you must have X women for X men, and only the Women's Studies Softball Team wants to play, it means you cut EVERYTHING.

RE: to my understanding, title 9 simply said that if a girl wanted to play on a team that was only open to guys, the school had to either create a girls team, or allow her on the guys team.

Nope.

RE: it was also about equal funding. but i seriously doubt it requires you find a girl "equally competitive," and i'm pretty sure that guys teams won't be cut for not having enough females interested....

Wrong AGAIN.

RE: if anything, they'd be cut for lack of funds, since the girls teams are now getting some of the money the guys used to get.

Collegiate sports in this country MAKE money.

RE: the means to escape my father through public service groups that came about only after the feminist movement forced attention to these issues. i'm glad she did, because i wasn't old enough to get the worst of the abuse, but it was bad enough.

So if I ever mention (not in this thread) that there are similar issues in the male community, would you get off my back about it?

RE: as for boy's sports being shut down because funding was directed to girl's sports...AW poor babies. sorry. totally unsympathetic.

That's not what happened.

Here's a good article on what did.

COLLEGE SPORTS are required--by Title iX of the 1972 education amendments to the Civil Rights Act of 1964--to provide equal opportunities for men and women. Although enacted as an anti-discrimination statute, Title IX has quietly become a quota system that has decreased sports opportunities for men while demanding endlessly expanding opportunities for women. What's more, the losers from Title IX are not limited to the now familiar angry white male. Pursuit of "gender equity" in college athletics is alienating key parts of the affirmative action constituency--black males and liberal college administrators--while minority women see little benefit. The only clear winners, for the time being, are middle- and upper-class white women.

Because men tend to participate in sports at higher rates than women, university administrators--under pressure both to comply with Title IX and balance their budgets--resort to simply cutting men's athletic slots to avoid the charge that women are "under-represented" in sports. But when men's opportunities are cut in sports such as basketball and football--which have high concentrations of minority athletes--"gender equity" often supplants racial equity, spelling trouble in the world of race and sex bean-counting. Last year the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) voted to cut men's basketball scholarships while leaving women's untouched, raising howls of protest from black coaches. At many universities, non-scholarship slots on large men's basketball, football, and track squads are being trimmed-- taking opportunities for black male athletes with them. At some schools, these sports are being eliminated altogether.

And who benefits? The women's teams most often added to achieve Title IX compliance are in sports like tennis, rowing, and soccer--not the stuff of heated competition in the inner city. NCAA statistics bear this out: The women who participate in these sports (that is, sports other than women's basketball and track) are eighty-six percent white, five percent black, and two percent Hispanic.

 

RE: RE: as for boy's sports being shut down because funding was directed to girl's sports...AW poor babies. sorry. totally unsympathetic.

KC, how about this?

How about we say that the same quota system applies to dance classes (which are 95% female)

If you have 52% female enrollment to 48% male - your dance class has to have the same makeup. And if you can only find ten guys who want to take dance, then if that's the case you cut every female position over and above ten.

 

try again. if we're comparing the number of activities available to males vs. the number of activities available to females, you still have a gross inequality. when i was growing up, the ONLY THING i was allowed to participate in was the fucking brownies. that doesn't include the preferential treatment boys activities recieve in terms of who gets the facilities, equipment and staffing.

 

RE: try again. if we're comparing the number of activities available to males vs. the number of activities available to females, you still have a gross inequality.

Do you really?

That's an outright lie.

And by the way - you can address this problem, we can't. You can easily march into a gym and demand all the big grunting sweaty guys keep it down and stop using the chalk that stains your leotard. But I can't wander into "Curves". Never mind start demanding that you get rid of the machines and put in a weight pit.

RE: when i was growing up, the ONLY THING i was allowed to participate in was the fucking brownies.

Yeah, and to address this situation you stuck in quotas. Let me reiterate. If I was to impose by law that unless you found a bunch of guys willing to participate in dance, flower arranging and other female things then you're NOT ALLOWED to participate in them and the spots get cut, would that be fair or equitable?

RE: that doesn't include the preferential treatment boys activities recieve in terms of who gets the facilities, equipment and staffing.

What planet are you from? Who are we bending over backwards to promote, give equipment facilities and staffing to?

 

purdue university, '93-'97. girls not allowed in the gym to train for their sports except between the hours of 4-6 AM. the rest of the time was for the boys. the men's bus broke down, they took the girls bus, leavig them to drive through the night to get to their own tournaments. i agree that men should be allowed in all the activities and establishments open to females, so we don't really have anything to disagree about there. me, i worked out in a gym open to both sexes, it worked just fine. i think some women are just weenies about being seen exercising without their make up on or something. but even in high school, the girls were HEAVILY discouraged from the weightlifting classes ( i know, i love weight lifting ) and were constantly shuffled aside for the more glorious football and baseball teams (even though our girls teams had better overall records.)

 

RE: purdue university, '93-'97. girls not allowed in the gym to train for their sports except between the hours of 4-6 AM. the rest of the time was for the boys.

That is outright wrong.

RE: the men's bus broke down, they took the girls bus, leavig them to drive through the night to get to their own tournaments.

That's wrong too.

Let me guess, rather than give women equal access, they simply pared down the number of men's sports and said "we have the same NUMBER of athletes"

RE: i agree that men should be allowed in all the activities and establishments open to females, so we don't really have anything to disagree about there. me, i worked out in a gym open to both sexes, it worked just fine. i think some women are just weenies about being seen exercising without their make up on or something. but even in high school, the girls were HEAVILY discouraged from the weightlifting classes ( i know, i love weight lifting )

What kind?

RE: and were constantly shuffled aside for the more glorious football and baseball teams (even though our girls teams had better overall records.)

Problem is, the football and basketball teams make the university money.

Personally I think they should get rid of proportional representation and focus on equal access. There are more men interested in sport than women, that's a given. Just as how men aren't going to go into crocheting en masse even if they dictate it.

But there should be equal access. 12 girls wanna start a team then by damnit they should get it.

 

No one with an ounce of compassion, feminist or otherwise, thinks this type of violence should be tolerated. WHY, for the past 3 years, do you always use THIS example? NO feminst worth her salt thinks "hacking off men's privates" is to be tolerated.

Are you to deny that violence against womyn was NOT ignored until fairly recently? I have an aunt who was beated and raped regularly, the police were all buddy buddy with her FH and after a while wouldn't even come out for a Domestics call. Told my aunt that HE paid the bills and maybe she should "listen to him better and you won't get knocked around." She had four children and no place to go, (there were NO shelters in her area in the late 60s) and the family refused to talk about it. My grandmother finally moved in to stop the violence in the house.

He left her SIXTEEN TIMES before he finally stayed away. (after my gramma moved in.) The first day in court, what happned, the judge told her "You have a lot of kids, you'd better get a job." JESUS!

He never did pay his maintainence or his child support.

 

RE: No one with an ounce of compassion, feminist or otherwise, thinks this type of violence should be tolerated. WHY, for the past 3 years, do you always use THIS example? NO feminst worth her salt thinks "hacking off men's privates" is to be tolerated.

I use that example because it is famous, well known, and society's attitude (we're not talking feminism but society in general) was to treat it as a joke.

RE: Are you to deny that violence against womyn was NOT ignored until fairly recently?

Absolutely NOT.

RE: I have an aunt who was beated and raped regularly, the police were all buddy buddy with her FH

Don't get me started on the pigs.

RE: and after a while wouldn't even come out for a Domestics call. Told my aunt that HE paid the bills and maybe she should "listen to him better and you won't get knocked around."

Thing is, we've rectified that. But we still won't accept that men are battered, too - nor is it possible to find a battered men's shelter in many places. In fact, new legislation on DV which some men were trying to get changed to reflect the reality that men get battered and need help too was kept as is - with all services going to women.

 

LMAO *gives you a high five*

 

Hey, I totally accept it, the dude who lives across the street from me is, I beleive, a battered husband. I WISH there were a shelter he could take himself and his sons to, his wife is the worst sort of person. I think she has him so downtrodden, that he is afraid to make any changes, which, sadly, is the case for many abused people. Female or male.

 

RE: Hey, I totally accept it, the dude who lives across the street from me is, I beleive, a battered husband.

I understand you do. Society however does not.

We need to work towards a society where ALL are respected and helped when they have problems. I have as much of a problem with this as I do with FEMA taking its sweet ass time helping the black poor of New Orleans. (Believe me if it'd have been whitefolks on roofs etc. helicopters would have come faster)

 

Hey! I was in Brownies! *Staci hugs her fellow Brownie*

 

well, you need to address your brothers in this, because the most flack i ever saw a battered man take was from other men.

 

i got kicked out. dad couldn't afford the fees for that AND my brother's sports. nor the time to take me there.

 

RE: well, you need to address your brothers in this, because the most flack i ever saw a battered man take was from other men.

Who says I'm not?

 

who says women aren't either?

 

Never heard a single woman complain. Ever.

In fact, the response I've gotten from EVERY SINGLE ONE was 'oh that commercial in which the guy is violently assualted in his genitals is cute. Lighten up."

 

you only hear what you want to hear, and that's whatever conforms to your skewed and highly negative opinion of everything that women supposedly believe. "women never ever pay for meals." "women think violent physcial assaults are funny if they're against men" "women want to castrate their men and stick a ring through their noses" "women never have to do anything difficult" "women think that men have no troubles whatsoever" "women think molestation of boys is okay, but molestation of girls is not"

but when presented again and again with the legions of women who love and care for the rights of their fathers, husbands, brothers and sons, you consider that to be aberrant female behavior. it's a problem, man, and you need to address it.

 

RE: you only hear what you want to hear, and that's whatever conforms to your skewed and highly negative opinion of everything that women supposedly believe. "women never ever pay for meals." "women think violent physcial assaults are funny if they're against men"

Wow, so if women are TOTALLY against it, how come there are literally tons of ads showing men assaulted in the groin. Every household product ad shows a guy who couldn't convert oxygen to CO2 if his life depended on it "honey! I got my head stuck in the toilet again!" "Oh, that retard husband of mine. That's why I use Clorox scum-wand in my shower. I don't even have to change out of my Capris."

RE: "women want to castrate their men and stick a ring through their noses"

Ever read feminist propaganda?

RE: "women never have to do anything difficult"

They don't. Who is EXPECTED to be the breadwinner. Who is EXPECTED to rid the house of rodents, leap into the fray in a thunderstorm, change the tire by the side of the road, go to war to defend the nation? I'm not saying WHO COULD - I'm saying who is it EXPECTED of? No, women don't HAVE to do anything difficult.

RE: "women think that men have no troubles whatsoever" "women think molestation of boys is okay, but molestation of girls is not"

They absolutely do..... you can't say that with a straight face. Everything from "desperate housewives" to the lack of jail time for Mary Kay LeTourneau. She actually had to get knocked up by Vili Fuulau (which was against her court order - which is why she was jailed - not for the crime of pederasty but for doing something other than what she was told by a judge) to get into jail.

RE: but when presented again and again with the legions of women who love and care for the rights of their fathers, husbands, brothers and sons, you consider that to be aberrant female behavior. it's a problem, man, and you need to address it.

It IS aberrant female behaviour. Not to discount the women that do, but they are few and far between and tend to do it just for "their" man. Just like how most men didn't hit their wives, but did dick all to prevent it to those who did - back in the Bad Old Days.

 

re: Wow, so if women are TOTALLY against it, how come there are literally tons of ads showing men assaulted in the groin. Every household product ad shows a guy who couldn't convert oxygen to CO2 if his life depended on it "honey! I got my head stuck in the toilet again!" "Oh, that retard husband of mine. That's why I use Clorox scum-wand in my shower. I don't even have to change out of my Capris."

--oh, please, that's so freaking rare. it's not like women don't have anything to complain about on tv either. but i don't blame the entire male sex for it. protest it like women do. or does that go against your beliefs of what the male of the species is supposed to do?


RE: "women want to castrate their men and stick a ring through their noses"

Ever read feminist propaganda?

--do you ever read anything else?! beside hysterical male propaganda? you can't classify an entire sex by the rantings of a few psychos.


RE: "women never have to do anything difficult"

They don't. Who is EXPECTED to be the breadwinner. Who is EXPECTED to rid the house of rodents, leap into the fray in a thunderstorm, change the tire by the side of the road, go to war to defend the nation? I'm not saying WHO COULD - I'm saying who is it EXPECTED of? No, women don't HAVE to do anything difficult.

--oh, okay, so all those single women whose men have impregnated them and left them alone to raise children have nothing difficult to do. you know, raising the children alone, working to put food on the table alone. HEY! here's a fascinating new development!!! two-income households are more the norm now, and the woman is still EXPECTED to do the vast majority of the housework and taxy-ing of the children. not to mention that they're still EXPECTED to be the one to wake up all hours of the night with the sick kids and still make it to work in the morning. WOMEN HAVE TO DO DIFFICULT SHIT ALL THE TIME.

deal with reality, man. my husband has had to travel far and wide for his job, leaving me alone to do the hard, icky scary boy stuff like clearing out the rodents, repairing my car and fixing the busted pipes under the house. it's shocking, i know. how did we ever survive in the pioneer days?


RE: "women think that men have no troubles whatsoever" "women think molestation of boys is okay, but molestation of girls is not"

They absolutely do..... you can't say that with a straight face. Everything from "desperate housewives" to the lack of jail time for Mary Kay LeTourneau. She actually had to get knocked up by Vili Fuulau (which was against her court order - which is why she was jailed - not for the crime of pederasty but for doing something other than what she was told by a judge) to get into jail.

--WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? HELLO, WE HAVE SONS TOO!!! they're our children, do you think we only love and dote on daughters? JESUS H. CHRIST. you might as well say that everyone who's ever believed in god thinks priests have a right to rape little boys. there's truly fucked up court decisions every day, that doesn't mean that women are okay with it!


RE: but when presented again and again with the legions of women who love and care for the rights of their fathers, husbands, brothers and sons, you consider that to be aberrant female behavior. it's a problem, man, and you need to address it.

It IS aberrant female behaviour. Not to discount the women that do, but they are few and far between and tend to do it just for "their" man. Just like how most men didn't hit their wives, but did dick all to prevent it to those who did - back in the Bad Old Days.

--so since men aren't known for rallying to the female cause, women are against all creatures with testicles? try not to foist your own problems upon the female gender. we've got fucked up shit just like men do, but i don't think the vast majority of men are out to get me. but you've got some serious issues with your paranoia of the female gender, and frankly i think you're outta your mind.