"I'm not a feminist but..."

not to mention just birthing the kid, in and of itself.

 

yeah, no shit. my ever loving man understands this perfectly well. we've had a division of labor in this home for a long time, to keep it fair and to keep either of us from feeling taken advantage of. but i'm currently on strict bedrest because my life and my baby's life are endangered. so you know what? dave's doing the laundry and dishes now on my bad days. why? because the division of labor has shifted. but then, women aren't ever expected to do anything difficult.

 

RE: not to mention just birthing the kid, in and of itself.

Which in the vast majority of cases these days is "drug me into oblivion and pull it out of me". A trump card for sure. [giant list of complaints] "yeah but WE GIVE BIRTH". I quit.


RE: --oh, please, that's so freaking rare.

That kind of commercial is NOT "freaking rare". It's every second one. Find me a sitcom husband who wasn't some henpecked inadequate with a castrating wiseass wife. Phyilicia Rashad or whatever Cosby was supposedly married to had the Stare of Death.

RE: it's not like women don't have anything to complain about on tv either. but i don't blame the entire male sex for it. protest it like women do. or does that go against your beliefs of what the male of the species is supposed to do?

When you protest it, you get listened to and grant money. When we protest it we're told, hey wow like right now, that we obviously have issues with women, hate them - we have nothing to whine about - what about the pain of labor, childbirth, single mothers, the holocaust and everything else you men are responsible for etc.

RE: --do you ever read anything else?! beside hysterical male propaganda? you can't classify an entire sex by the rantings of a few psychos.

So why do you let these whack jobs speak for you then?

RE: --oh, okay, so all those single women whose men have impregnated them and left them alone to raise children have nothing difficult to do. you know, raising the children alone, working to put food on the table alone.

Nobody is EXPECTED to be a single mother, in fact women are EXPECTED not to be in that situation. But there you go again, twisting it from being about expectations of gender roles to being about those bastard wham bam thank you man and then he took off men again.

RE: HEY! here's a fascinating new development!!! two-income households are more the norm now,

Thanks to feminism. "Have cake and eat it too"

RE: and the woman is still EXPECTED to do the vast majority of the housework and taxy-ing of the children.

That would be because her income is considered a supplement, where as the man is expected to be the prime bread winner.

RE: deal with reality, man. my husband has had to travel far and wide for his job, leaving me alone to do the hard, icky scary boy stuff like clearing out the rodents, repairing my car and fixing the busted pipes under the house. it's shocking, i know. how did we ever survive in the pioneer days?

Men were men and women were women. And no liberals around to confiscate the guns.

RE: --WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? HELLO, WE HAVE SONS TOO!!! they're our children, do you think we only love and dote on daughters?

No, but you tend to only think about protecting the virtues of same.

RE: --so since men aren't known for rallying to the female cause, women are against all creatures with testicles?

Not overtly, but yes.

 

RE: not to mention just birthing the kid, in and of itself.

Which in the vast majority of cases these days is "drug me into oblivion and pull it out of me". A trump card for sure. [giant list of complaints] "yeah but WE GIVE BIRTH". I quit.

--yeah, go ahead and completely disregard the physical toll birth takes on a woman. you SHOULD give up.

RE: --oh, please, that's so freaking rare.

That kind of commercial is NOT "freaking rare". It's every second one. Find me a sitcom husband who wasn't some henpecked inadequate with a castrating wiseass wife. Phyilicia Rashad or whatever Cosby was supposedly married to had the Stare of Death.

--pfft. go ahead and call that whatever you like. castrating wife. what would you consider appropriate behavior? kissing her man when he walks through the door and never speaking a contrary word or making a joke? buy a blow up doll. and let's not forget that commercials selling shit to men portray woman as sex objects holding beer, and those ALSO portray men as idiots. it's not my fault that shit sells. you should protest it.

RE: it's not like women don't have anything to complain about on tv either. but i don't blame the entire male sex for it. protest it like women do. or does that go against your beliefs of what the male of the species is supposed to do?

When you protest it, you get listened to and grant money. When we protest it we're told, hey wow like right now, that we obviously have issues with women, hate them - we have nothing to whine about - what about the pain of labor, childbirth, single mothers, the holocaust and everything else you men are responsible for etc.

--what the fuck ever. just because you're not strong enough to stand up against criticism doesn't mean it's women's fault. how long did women have to fight before anyone paid any damned attention to them? oh, poor you. you're just so totally bowled over by the fact that you have to fight for ANYTHING because you're used to having shit go your way anyway. well, no longer. if you want it, fight for it, just like the rest of us.

RE: --do you ever read anything else?! beside hysterical male propaganda? you can't classify an entire sex by the rantings of a few psychos.

So why do you let these whack jobs speak for you then?

--WHO is speaking for me? I'M speaking for me. but you don't consider that good enough, that's right, because ONE person supposedly speaks for the whole sex. except when it's myself. only when it's some whack job does that person speak for the whole sex. but when i speak up for all us women in my acquaintanc and myself who are fighting for true equality, like paying for dinner and not taking advantage of men, suddenly it's abberrant and only applies to me. you need to check your bias at the door.

RE: --oh, okay, so all those single women whose men have impregnated them and left them alone to raise children have nothing difficult to do. you know, raising the children alone, working to put food on the table alone.

Nobody is EXPECTED to be a single mother, in fact women are EXPECTED not to be in that situation. But there you go again, twisting it from being about expectations of gender roles to being about those bastard wham bam thank you man and then he took off men again.

--you can't cry about the EXPECTATIONS on men and refuse to address the REALITIES of women.

RE: HEY! here's a fascinating new development!!! two-income households are more the norm now,

Thanks to feminism. "Have cake and eat it too"

--aw, a woman decides to help her man provide for the family and it's selfish of her. but still, she's unselfish enough to try to meet the EXPECTATIONS to do everything else.

RE: and the woman is still EXPECTED to do the vast majority of the housework and taxy-ing of the children.

That would be because her income is considered a supplement, where as the man is expected to be the prime bread winner.

--oh, so the number of hours put in means nothing? he puts in 40, she puts in 40, but since she's making LESS (oh, where'd that come from?) it's not worthy of consideration?

RE: deal with reality, man. my husband has had to travel far and wide for his job, leaving me alone to do the hard, icky scary boy stuff like clearing out the rodents, repairing my car and fixing the busted pipes under the house. it's shocking, i know. how did we ever survive in the pioneer days?

Men were men and women were women. And no liberals around to confiscate the guns.

--i've got my own damned guns, thank you. but aren't you the one who's pissed off at the roles MEN (who were men) were EXPECTED to perform? all these EXPECTATIONS that you object to are no longer hard and fast because you have a choice now. you can have a stay at home woman, or you can have one with a job who just MIGHT pay for dinner. GASP!

RE: --WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? HELLO, WE HAVE SONS TOO!!! they're our children, do you think we only love and dote on daughters?

No, but you tend to only think about protecting the virtues of same.

--you're outta your goddamned mind. i'm just as fierce protecting my little brother from harm as i am protecting my little sister from harm. i love them both. i adore them both. just because some psycho harmed you doesn't mean that all women are okay with watching their adored sons and brothers come to harm. you need to let it go! i was hurt too, but i don't think every man out there is okay with raping women!

RE: --so since men aren't known for rallying to the female cause, women are against all creatures with testicles?

Not overtly, but yes.

--seriously, seek help. you're quite possibly one of the most paranoid men i've ever met.

 

RE: --yeah, go ahead and completely disregard the physical toll birth takes on a woman. you SHOULD give up.

Hey, it's not like we're the ones insisting on it.

RE: --pfft. go ahead and call that whatever you like. castrating wife. what would you consider appropriate behavior? kissing her man when he walks through the door and never speaking a contrary word or making a joke? buy a blow up doll. and let's not forget that commercials selling shit to men portray woman as sex objects holding beer, and those ALSO portray men as idiots. it's not my fault that shit sells. you should protest it.

I would consider equitable behaviour appropriate. There's a happy medium.

RE: --what the fuck ever. just because you're not strong enough to stand up against criticism doesn't mean it's women's fault. how long did women have to fight before anyone paid any damned attention to them?

Oh, eventually you will listen. I understand that.

RE: oh, poor you. you're just so totally bowled over by the fact that you have to fight for ANYTHING because you're used to having shit go your way anyway. well, no longer. if you want it, fight for it, just like the rest of us.

I have no interest in fighting for anything. I simply go about my own business.

RE" --WHO is speaking for me? I'M speaking for me. but you don't consider that good enough, that's right, because ONE person supposedly speaks for the whole sex.

However, you seem to think I should take your particular circumstances as being indicative of all women.

RE: --you can't cry about the EXPECTATIONS on men and refuse to address the REALITIES of women.

I'll tell you the realities of men. We die younger, commit suicide far more often and are far more likely after the divorce to be living in the roach filled studio while she takes more than half the wages and stays in the house. Do you know what the depression rate is in men?

RE: --aw, a woman decides to help her man provide for the family and it's selfish of her. but still, she's unselfish enough to try to meet the EXPECTATIONS to do everything else.

There you go. See, she's "helping him".

RE: --oh, so the number of hours put in means nothing? he puts in 40, she puts in 40, but since she's making LESS (oh, where'd that come from?) it's not worthy of consideration?

Who's the first to quit?

RE: --i've got my own damned guns, thank you. but aren't you the one who's pissed off at the roles MEN (who were men) were EXPECTED to perform? all these EXPECTATIONS that you object to are no longer hard and fast because you have a choice now. you can have a stay at home woman, or you can have one with a job who just MIGHT pay for dinner. GASP!

Yeah, I might also have a winning lottery ticket, too.

RE: --you're outta your goddamned mind. i'm just as fierce protecting my little brother from harm as i am protecting my little sister from harm. i love them both. i adore them both. just because some psycho harmed you doesn't mean that all women are okay with watching their adored sons and brothers come to harm. you need to let it go! i was hurt too, but i don't think every man out there is okay with raping women!

No, when men rape women, we put them in jail. And in jail, they get taken care of by other prisoners. As for women who take advantage of little boys? Ooh, sassy! You go, girl!

RE: --seriously, seek help. you're quite possibly one of the most paranoid men i've ever met.

Let's not get personal, shall we?

 

right on, kc, and THANK YOU! couldn't have said it better myself.
irongoth, YOU are putting THEIR words in OUR mouths. we've tried to tell you over and over that they aren't speaking for us, yet you refuse to listen.
i have a question for you, irongoth.. you say that women are awful because they're all sexist, but why is it okay for you to be sexist towards women?

 

well, i'm taking up this argument tomorrow. my man's on his way home and this nonsense puts me in the wrong mood.

BUT, that "let's not get personal" comment was just plain snarky.

 

Well, I thought a rule around here was not to attack the other person personally, but I mean, I can ascribe a lot of your attitudes to things you've revealed about yr past. I just don't wanna go there, it isn't proper.

RE: i have a question for you, irongoth.. you say that women are awful because they're all sexist, but why is it okay for you to be sexist towards women?

Since when was I sexist? I've already said that individual people may vary but the societal attitude etc. is the problem. It's folks like kc who seem to think everything revolves around her explicitly.

 

yeah. whatever. unless it's some whack job who wants to rape little boys and castrate men, then it's ALL of us.

 

So are you saying that women think that feminists and their leaders are basically crackpots?

 

i'm saying that anyone can see a psycho for a psycho. not all feminists and not all their leaders are psycho. but there's definitely some freaks out there. but freaks are freaks because they're not the NORM.

 

i'd make a list of examples, but that would take too much time.

 

well, there's the fact that he's absolutely fixated on the faults and foibles of the female sex while gleefully ignoring the fact the men do the same but more of it, blames women for everything that has ever gone wrong for men, ADORES nomarriage.com and probably is a subscriber/supporter to americanwomensuck.com

and every complaint that women have ever had en masse since the beginning of time is CLEARLY a personal attack on himself and robs him PERSONALLY of his enjoyment of life because he doesn't want to share facilities or funding...

no mother will ever defend the rights of her sons, oh NO, we only care about our daughters...

yeah, sexist suits just fine.

 

RE: well, there's the fact that he's absolutely fixated on the faults and foibles of the female sex

Well, given that there's an entire industry of professional victims fixated on the faults and foibles of the male sex, I'll leave that to the experts. You can get a Ph.D in it, if I remember correctly. Or are you so arrogant you'd insist women are never wrong?

RE: while gleefully ignoring the fact the men do the same but more of it,

Oh no, men are bastards too, but in far different ways.

RE: blames women for everything that has ever gone wrong for men, ADORES nomarriage.com

I don't adore either nomarriage.com, americanwomensuck.com or mensactivism.org. They may have a valid point, but I find them whiny. Ditto the Ruly Mob. But buried in there are some very very serious issues. Some are with respect to the men there (can you tell some of them have been through divorce?) but they have some valid points to make elsewhere.

RE: and probably is a subscriber/supporter to americanwomensuck.com

Heck no.

RE: and every complaint that women have ever had en masse since the beginning of time is CLEARLY a personal attack on himself and robs him PERSONALLY of his enjoyment of life because he doesn't want to share facilities or funding...

That's rich, coming from someone whose sole rejoinder is "well, I don't..." or "well, Dave is..." hey, Monsignor Fletch has never raped any kids so I guess that whole priest pederasty thing is a giant liberal myth, right?

RE: no mother will ever defend the rights of her sons, oh NO, we only care about our daughters...

Studies have shown parents are harsher on boys, and harsher on ugly children. And by the way, though we portray the batterer as an out of control man with bug eyes, the majority of child abusers are female. Almost all of those who FATALLY abuse their children are female.

 

This is getting OT. Skip is getting more strigent about keeping threads on topic.

An other endless, win-less discussion about WHO is more abusive is useless. We'll get this back On Topic, or I'll close it.

 

When topics are this debated, it's always going to get off topic. I guess some can't handle an opposition comment. This site, i thought, was about having the freedom to day what you want and giving others the same right. In my opinion, bugger off if you don't or can't agree.

 

I don't think he is sexist at all. I think he just sees feminism as I do. It may have started out as a good thing, but it has been ruined by man-haters. That is why I say Women's Rights all the way, but NOT feminism.

 

Men and women's right's are equal to me. It's that simple. Sometimes, i think people push women's right's so much so, they men are forgotten.

 

i think that's just semantics, "feminism" "women's rights." i dn't care what the label is. i think he's sexist because he despises the whole based on the bad behavior of a few. it pisses me off. if i acted the way he did, i'd be constantly harping on that ALL men are unreliable, lazy, egotistical womanizers and child gropers who leave their children scattered about the countryside to be raised in a sub par standard by their overworked mothers. after all, this HAS been my experience. but i'm not that close-minded.

 

..