Iraq from a different perspective

Okay, go back and read my initial post, and if you want, watch the video. Neither are asking you to buy into anything.

Many people do not want to see it from this point of view. You are clearly one of these people, as are most that posted here who were so afraid to think that there is anything going on in Iraq but what you hear about in the news. You cannot accept that those who have seen it first hand may have seen even an ounce of humanity in what they do. And that is OK. It may not be your fault that you see a spectrum from such a narrow point of view. I suggest you talk to your relatives when they return from Afghanistan and listen to what they have to say. I have tried that story too and it resulted in the same back and forth arguing. I am not going to contribute to this thread derailing anymore. Continue with whoever may be willing. Here is another video for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7duCmh7-_4A&mode=related&search=

 

I don't see it from a narrow view point. I haven't seen any real proof that we have made lives better for the Iraqi children or the children and women of Afghanastan. Have you? The Taliban and the other forces have gained a new foothold in Afghanastan. The Iraqi children now have to run after US vehicles to get water while our soldiers film them and laugh at them. What's better now. Please, show me some proof that things are better.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=m9A_vxIOB-I

Our soldiers write songs about raping and killing families.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13300342/

Refugees are leaving Iraq by the millions. What exactly have we accomplished?

Show me the new schools and hospitals that were built, under standards that we would accept here in the states. We paid contractors huge sums, but what exactly has been rebuilt? The ones I've seen were done shoddily and wouldn't meet any standards that would comply with sanitary practices.

 

The films I linked to were films not Flash projects put together to a moving soundtrack. The kids running for water and the Marine singing about killing familes and raping were just that films. Films put together and posted by American GIs that thought they were funny.

 

Sorry the first link wasn't a direct one to Hadji Girl.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2058313056450546087

 

What about the 8.8 billion in Iraqi reconstruction funds that can't be accounted for that's more money than I can even comprehend, but it was meant for the reconstruction. When will we demand an accounting for this? Yet we are supposed to continue to send our young people over there to die for something that a few are gaining huge profits from. I am not my cousins' families aren't. Who is?

 

You seriously cannot be this dense. Nowhere in this thread have these videos I've provided shown that the lives of Iraqi and Afghani women and children have been improved? They mention nothing of the Taliban. They suggest nothing or attempt to prove that things are better. They show no accomplishments. They claim nothing about the construction of new schools and hospitals, nor whether the ones constructed would comply with US building and sanitation standards. And they claim nothing about where the money paid to contractors has gone.

Please tell me, where on earth did you get these implications from? It seems to me that you are absolutely offended by seeing something that is even remotely suggesting anything that isn't Hell on earth, and are frantically trying to provide proof and argument otherwise. Understand, these videos are not argument, they are showing a different perspective. These videos are not argument, they are showing a different perspective. These videos are not argument, they are showing a different perspective. These videos are not argument, they are showing a different perspective. These videos are not argument, they are showing a different perspective. These videos are not argument, they are showing a different perspective. These videos are not argument, they are showing a different perspective.

 

maybe not 100% useless
but it seems you would agree that it is not very effective of a system

th theory behind the UN is simple:
united we stand - divided we fall

but when the united peoples do nothing - there is no real point

 

So why are our young people risking their lives?

 

You show a few smiling children, but how long did they smile? When was the last car bomb? What is the US really doing to make their lives better? Do they have indoor toilets or water in their homes, they did before we bombed. How are things better?

 

If it isn't hell on earth there, why are American troops still there?

 

My cousins are risking their lives for the children in the films, but what are they actually accomplishing. Not much in four years if you ask me. Halibuton has reaped billions. Haliburton profits aren't something I want my family to die for, how about you?

 

I don't know what your cousins are doing in Afghanistan, but they should be proud of what they have accomplished. Afghanistan is a whole different beast than Iraq. Much has been accomplished in Afghanistan, and unfortunately, since the Taliban are seeing the power slip away they are fighting back. I am not going to force anything down your throat. If you deny that any improvements have been made in Afghanistan than you simply do not want to see them. I challenge you to see what has been done. I have tried to discuss this topic here before, and simply nobody wanted to admit that anything positive has been done. Some cannot admit the positive things, but that does not mean they don't exist. I am sure you will learn about them when your cousins return. Perhaps you can share their stories here.

 

I know what is going on in Afghanastan, because I have felt a necessity to be informed on that front. The infrastructure and society of Afghanastan is not much better than it was before we went in there. In fact in many areas the lives of average Afghanis are worse because of the instability. If you have positive proof of the great improvements please post links. Perhaps you should do some comparisons on average incomes back ten years and now for the Afghani population, I think you would find that informative. Please, I'd like to see pictures of the new schools, hospitals, water systems have any?

 

You have been profiled. It is clear what you are willing to accept. You claiming you are informed is a fallacy.

"Many areas" Meaning around Kandahar where it was formerly ruled by strict Taliban law and is now in a battle for a free society. Nice play on words. As far as positive proof, I don't need the internet to tell me what has been done there. Take that as you will. I am not going to waste my time trying to "convince" you otherwise because of aforementioned reasons.

Income is a pretty relative word in Afghanistan. This I am sure you know nothing about. It is not as if the average person goes to their 9-5 job and is now making $1.00 less an hour. Take America back a couple of hundred years and you may begin to understand the "income" of the average Afghani. Legal income for Afghanistan is increasing. If you are talking about a lower income for people that are illegally cultivating opium then you are correct. The opium market in Afghanistan has fragmented since the war. Production has not been effected as much as the farmer. If you want to say illegal income is lower, than you are correct. Correct only in comparison to families that were formerly cultivating opium which is ILLEGAL.

Interesting you mention water systems. Seems to me this is the first time that this topic has been brought up between us. Would you be talking about the construction of irrigation systems that have brought together tribes that were formerly fueding? Irrigation systems that not only provided water for crops, but also powered simple generators that provided even the remotest villages with at least some electricity? Are you talking about the water systems that were part of a project that required the workforce of multiple tribes that resulted in the squashing of decade old fueds? Tribes that now see the value in a societal relationship to help their people.

 

How many of you can stomach these images? Keep telling yourself this isn't happening over there.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TwaWEPvsL4

 

Data on Afghanistan is scarce, but what little there is looks very positive: % of kids in school up from 19% to 93%. And girls of course are up from 0%.

Immunisations are way up.

The economy is growing faster than China's.

http://devdata.worldbank.org/extern...ntry=afg&CCODE=afg&CNAME=afghanistan&PTYPE=CP

More stats here:

http://www.cso.gov.af/

 

And This has what to do with the reason we're there? remember
Al-Qeada? They're flourishing also and planning the next attack while Bush and his morons jack off in Iraq.

Too bad we can't do the same for our own country.

 

I think the idea is to help the country get on its feet so it can defend itself. Guess you don't care.

I don't think having half your top leadership captured or killed and being driven from a sanctuary where you operated from permanent bases is "flourishing".

Developing countries grow faster. The US is has been growing faster than other large develped countries (Japan, EU countries) for years.

 

Pepik

Oh yeah? hmmmm thought we went there to capture Bin Laden and wipe out Al-Queada. I thought for sure Bush said we ain't into nation building.

Again..in case you haven't heard we haven't caught Bin Laden or his top commanders yet..their sanctuary is on the Pakistan border and doing just fine. I'd say they're doing a pretty dam good at making Bush and his moron club (that'd be you) look like goddam fools.

 

Its true, they did say they don't do nation building. Good thing they realised that was a mistake (wasn't really true, anyway). So you are opposed to rebuilding in Afghanistan?

Mohammed Atef, al Qaeda’s senior field commander killed in a bombing raid in Afghanistan; Abu Zubaida, Osama bin Laden’s field commander after the killing of Atef, captured in Pakistan; Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, mastermind of the September 11th attacks, captured in Pakistan; Ramzi Binalshibh, a coordinator of the September 11th attacks, captured in Pakistan; Hambali, top strategist for al Qaeda's associate group Jemaah Islamiah in Southeast Asia, captured in Thailand; Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, al Qaeda’s chief of operations in the Persian Gulf, captured in the United Arab Emirates; Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, a suspect in the 1998 bombings of the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, captured in Pakistan; and Abu Issa al–Hindi, a central planner of detailed reconnaissance of American financial institutions, captured in Britain.

Nope, no successes there.