Is America a free country, or an illusion of freedom?

You haven't actually responded though... you've just called me names and insisted I'm not getting it. I get that you have this narrative about yourself but I also think you know for a fact that despite your so-called troubles, you've had it pretty easy... probably too easy, actually.

You can give yourself credit for some of what you have, but I think you probably know that you're mostly just a poor little rich girl who hasn't had to truly worry about anything for most of your life.

If a normal person had had the same opportunities that you have, they could have done pretty much anything. With the money from the 7 cars you trashed, they could have had the best education money can buy. Those ruined cars could have completely restored an impoverished community. It could have bought libraries in the third world. It could have built schools. It could have saved lives. But instead, it helped someone be an awful parent, and it helped to turn you into a spoiled, capitalist product.

I am being pretty harsh here, but yeah... you are exactly what pisses me off about the upper classes... they have no sense of reality and no shame about how wasteful they are... I'm not even sure if you're even a little bit ashamed. How can you live like that??? All you can think about is how you couldn't deal with loss!!!!

I would laugh at the absurdity of it, but it's too sad. It does help me to reinforce my beliefs, but that's not really any kind of consolation.

You could have been anything you wanted, you could have been someone who really contributes to society... and instead you ended up in a job that needs no qualifications and that anyone on this forum could do.

I don't even blame you, really... it's the system. It's grotesque and seriously depressing.

 

I'm not going to bother reading this post. But I will say that for some reason you turned this into a personal attack against me because you don't agree with my opinions. Which is sad because thats pretty ridiculous to begin with. The funny thing is you place your preconceived notions on me, without actually paying attention to who I am or what I've said. You're old, and set in your ways…with your opinions about people and stereotypes you obviously apply to me. We're all entitled to believe and be driven by what we want. And if what drives me, ends with a positive result…you should be happy for me instead of try to tear me down and say my struggle is invalid or less important than yours because you had it worse (because thats obviously your point here).

Anyway, theres no point in you responding anymore I'm writing you off you're going on ignore.

 

It seems your contradicting yourself. Why would anyone need to change anything if they are free.

 

Its a mental thing. I'm saying if they're discontent, or want things differently…they should take action. They are free, but maybe not in their own minds and understanding of their own ability.

 

Just because you think things are a certain way dosnt make it so. The evidence is there no matter what your thoughts are.

 

Keep the personal insults out of this thread.

Thank you.

 

thing about money is the less you want it the richer you are.

 

Would that work with freedom too.
the less freedom you want the freer you are...

 

What I had posted earlier was a basic question about freedom and its definition. When I went to college the question about freedom came up often. Most political scientists agree that when a person is a citizen of a country, they are free. In contrast, when a person is a subject of a country, they aren't free. A subject is owned by a government that most often claims freedom is that activity which is not prohibited by law. In America, we have the Bill of Rights. In there we have an amendment that says powers which are not granted by the people to the government are retained as rights by the people. Unfortunately, we have very few cops and government officials who respect that concept. America has more laws on the books than other countries. The lawyers in America have to specialize in an area, like taxes or real estate, because there are too many laws to remember. Also, in America laws regulate ordinary people and often allow the rich to get away with too much. The richer you are, the less taxes you pay. Just ask Michelle Bachmann and Mitt Romney.:mickey:

 

One of my kids is 18, has never had to truly understand going without and is living "on his own". By that I mean he is couch surfing and "starving" and barely scrapping by. Poor dude. But he can always come home for dinner. He can always approach me for financial backing if he has a great idea. He will never be stuck on the side of the road with nowhere to go. And one day he will make something of himself because this is just a stage. But I'll tell you what.....if he ever presents himself as some condescending fucking asshole who thinks he "made it" all on his own and anyone who can't is a lazy piece of shit who just isn't trying hard enough....well...he wouldn't do that because he isn't a spoiled brat.

For the record....I actually have been broke, homeless and living of food banks. That was much of my childhood so I think I know a few things about being poor. Kids like my kids know nothing about truly struggling and only sound foolish when they try to present themselves in that light. Poor little middle class white kids.....

 

statistically you violate at least 3 major laws every day and could be made to serve prison time, this is the dager of millions of laws that people can't know or understand combined with constant surveillance.

freedom can also just be a state of mind but there are limits. Also, a proper government would not "allow" activities, remember the 10th amendment


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

a wage slave is still a slave and within a society that worships materialism and forces you to "earn your keep" the only true freedom would be to wander as a hobo. When I was homeless yes I had the freedom to sleep anywhere I wanted (as long as I did not desire someplace comfortable, or safe, and I could avoid those whose job it was to torment me and punish me for living free) - I was also free to drink from any fountain (as long as any privileged person did not object and call in the authorities) or any house hose (as long as I did not get shot) , I was also free to be hungry and unhealthy as I had nothing to pay and I was in surroundings where I needed scrip to get anything. demanding full freedom in any society that worships different ideals leaves you out in the cold.

 

Re-posting my thoughts because I fear it got lost in the multi-page "squabble";


Since this forum is international it only makes sense to evaluate the extent of freedom enjoyed in America relative to other countries in the world.
When looked at from that perspective, American's enjoy more freedoms and personal rights than the majority of nations in the world today.

Regardless of whatever injustices, inequalities, imperfections or corruptions that are laid at America's feet, many rightly so, it still remains one of the freest nations in the world.

The mere fact that there has been essentially non-stop immigration to America since it's inception, a large majority of which was/is to escape oppressive governments or oppressive poverty, should speak for itself as to how America stands concerning the overall freedom enjoyed by the average person relative to most other nations.

 

No country is free being bound by it's boundaries.

 

ANY Country is only as the Freedom that people allow it to be methinks

 

The earth on the other hand is responsible only to it's attractions.

 

Existentially we are free towards artificial limits. We are committed to them by our own reckoning. We just Do before all the possibilities are self-realized. but ethically the free country has it's own ideas for the independent judgement. Moral decision time; I hear the Obermann gets paid for this.

 

NG--- I saw your comment the first time. I didn't comment because it's both very right and very wrong (or dangerous)... of COURSE the U.S. is "more free" than some other countries. I'm glad I live here instead of North Korea... BUT I don't think that excuses the problems and lack of freedoms (the monetary system, etc...things already mentioned earlier in thread)- and I think it can be dangerous if people in countries such as the U.S. walk around thinking too much "well, this isn't North Korea or Saudi Arabia or China or where ever..."

 

Earlier in this thread I made the exact comment that NG did and Pressed Rat had a similar response.

I don't think it's 'dangerous' to compare because you need to assume that people have enough critical judgment to realize that while imperfect, the US could be a lot worse. That doesn't mean you should 'love it or leave it', just that there are positive aspects to the current system.

I can also think of countries that are much nicer to live in than the US... and most of them aren't as 'free'.

Scandinavian 'welfare' states are more egalitarian but there is a lot more government influence in people's lives... the difference being that the people aren't as antagonistic towards the government as the typical American and while they might not agree with all of the proposed changes/policies, there is a general sentiment that their system is a good one.

I think that 'freedom' is mostly a buzzword used to manipulate people into participating in the system and accepting responsibility for things which may or may not be their own fault. The spread of post-industrial society is pretty much the death of 'true' freedom, wherein you live or die based on your wits/strength/intellect... we're sort of stuck in this pattern of listen, repeat, climb to the top and collect your reward... and people are frustrated by it because we know it's making us weaker and sicker, but the exits keep disappearing and it's easier to just go with the flow.

Eventually, society is going to be so omnipresent that the only choice is going to be an exploitative, wasteful, consumer society or a compassionate, egalitarian, conscientious one... it will probably fluctuate but overall I think the trend will eventually have to be towards the latter, for the good of the planet and human beings everywhere.

 

To your last paragraph- let's hope you are right. Sometimes I have a lot of hope in...let's just say "good" prevailing. Some days... I have almost none.


In any case, I totally understand your point and what you are saying. So, I will edit what I've said to include .... that it can be dangerous to have that attitude if taken to an extreme- if people just tune out the bad things and don't care about trying to change them, because, well, we have it better than other places here.


Okay, this is pretty off the wall. I know that. But... imagine a parent who allows their 12 year old to smoke weed. Even though that parent may know that marijuana is not good for a developing brain. Because said parent keeps telling theirself....well they're not off smoking crack or shooting heroin outside the house. It's harmless. So, by thinking about a worse situation, they ignore the impact of the brain of their 12 year old.
So I'm saying people who keep their heads in the clouds "this country is great....we have so many freedoms"--- ignoring all that is not right..well, those freedoms that they do have will slowly slip away because they were focused on what they were not (N.Korea).

 

I am poor in spirit.