Is America a free country, or an illusion of freedom?

Hey RandomVegan, I'm a big fan of the 9th Amendment.

 

If you look at all the nations in the world. you might conclude that America and countries within the EU are probably more 'free' than other countries.
But it's all relative.
None of us are really free in that we have to tolerate quite dictatorial and authoritarian governments who don't really represent the will of the people.

 

Yep....

The fallacy of--- Behavior A is not wrong because so many people do Behavior B and Behavior B is so much worse so why worry about behavior A?
(Except if Behavior B did not exist as a comparison people would be concerned about Behavior A.)

 

you are onto something there..

 

♥ ♣ :sunny: FREEDOM??? ♣ If You Are Not Fully *ENLIGHTENED* ~ You Are *TRAPPED* & Bound In The Prison Of The *MATRIX* & Not *FREE!* :window: ♣ This Is A *GREAT* Article About It! ♣ It's Something ALL True Mystics & Spiritually Enlightened Beings & Seers Know ~ & They Have Transcended The *MATRIX!* ♥ :grouphug: ♥ ♣ :sunny: ♣ ♥

♠ http://jesuscediel.com/es/thematrix ♠

 

freedom only exists when people aren't robbing it from each other. its not something any country can create, and it doesn't come from any ideology, and it certainly doesn't come from anyone killing anyone else because of their ideology, nor that of the country they live in. all those things rob and reduce freedom, not give it.

freedom isn't a property of countries, it is a result of having a culture of universally mutual consideration. anything less, becomes a robing of each other's freedom and that makes it less.

so i don't believe there is any such thing as a free country, only places where the culture of people, and the policies of governments, are to rob freedom less.

i don't think this makes america any kind of a myracle, nor any other country nor any ideology.

america is above the halfway line between least and most free. but beyond that, well i wouldn't call trying to close borders or having to get prior approval to build and live in what you'd like to build and live in, any kind of freedom. i wouldn't call having to own everything and having to indenture yourself to do so, any kind of freedom either.

 

Well, let's see. I can get in my vehicle and drive about anywhere I want without showing "papers." I can say anything I want, minus the 'fire in a crowded theater' example. I can drive to the country and shoot the shit outta' targets without any hassle. I can buy whatever I can afford. Or buy nothing. I don't have to be religious or otherwise. I can vote or not vote. (don't start!) On the other hand, I'll never own any structure free and clear. Taxes go forever. I will have to get auto/truck insurance, home insurance and business insurance. I'm sure there is much more I could mention, but it seems like it kind of evens out. Some freedom and some restrictions. Maybe except all this homeland bullshit.

 

but you can't get in you vehicle, or even have a vehicle, without indenturing more of your time, then doing so leaves you to enjoy it.

not having to show papers? really. what do you think that drivers license is, that you can go to jail for driving around without it?

you CAN get on a bus or a train, without having to show i.d. to buy a ticket or pay the fare, or could the last time i checked, at least a local city bus you still can. i'm not so sure about amtrak or to fly in a commercial air line. and even then you have to indenture yourself to some degree to pay for it.

so the ratio of time indentured to time to enjoy the so called freedom it buys you, is a very real factor into the equasion.

but the main thing for me, is you are never free to think your own thoughts, when someone else is robbing you of them by being thoughtless with their idea of entertainment.

and without thinking your own thoughts, dreaming YOUR OWN dreams, and believing YOUR OWN beliefs, that is no freedom at all.

like you said, it does mostly balance out, except for this con job that calls itself patriotism, ideology, and organized belief. granted this is not a factor entirely unique to any one country, but people who have seen and live in other countries seem to agree that america has gotten, if not always been, a bit top heavy with that sort of thing.

 

last flight I needed to show ID, same with the Amtrak, even my local bus pass has my picture and qualifies as real ID and geez the trouble you go through for a passport

 

Free in the sense of civil, economic, or political?

 

freedom FROM civil, economic AND political concerns.
none of those senses of 'freedom' are freedom, in and of itself, at all.

though the freedom of all, depends on the willingness of each to take and accept responisbility for their own behavior.

america has always had tremendous potential for freedom, though as it has become increasingly populated, and increasingly depletes mineral and other non-self renewing resources, that potential decreases.

much more rapidly then that, people have sold their freedom, for an empty handful of the emporors new greed.

the sad reality is that america as a consensus, nor as a government, has never wanted freedom. doesn't want it now.

america wants to pretend to be free. america wants everyone else, in its vanity, to call it free.

it loves illusions of freedom, especially in some of those areas mentioned, but really prefers the illusion to any sense of reality.

so we have, this great place to pretend to be free. while at the same time conning poeple into getting and keeping themselves too indentured to their illusions, to ever be able to fully enjoy them. and of course, treating those who refuse to lie to themselves to go along with this, as second class citizens.