Is God hypocritical?

Thou shalt not murder/kill (Are we going to say there is a difference between the two?)

Sodom & Grimorahh + Great Flood + Elijah and the bears. These are three examples of the Christian god going back on its law of thou shalt not murder/kill and murdering/killing many men, women and children.

I may not answering your question completely, can you clarify a little bit?

Hell is only the common grave of mankind if you believe in it. Originally hell was said to be under the earth but now we know hell does not exist anywhere within the earth. Infact, it is now an abstract idea of where evil people go when they die.

As for the Christian god's judgements, consider what Socrates said about holiness. Does God's will result in the action/thought being holy, does what is holy dictate God's will, or are God's will and holiness the same thing?

Now we are getting into Christianity being the chosen religion. What is to say that all Christians are following a sham religion and Hinduism is the real religion, or Islam, or countless other religions. No religion can say without a shadow of a doubt that their religion is the ultimate religion.

For me my moral code is simple. Stabbing someone causes pain, therefore it is wrong. Stealing from someone causes anguish and discomfort, therefore it is wrong. Etc, etc.

There situations where this does not work but then again it is more of a guideline.

Obviously if we look at sex from a biological standpoint then only heterosexual relations accomplish anything. However, homosexual relations do happen in nature and carry the same risks that any sexual relations carry. Therefore I honestly don't care who partakes in them, whatever makes your time on earth more enjoyable.

All sexual relations regardless of orientation carry some risk. Saying that gays have increased use of drugs or unprotected sex is just that. It is drugs and unprotected sex. Last time I checked, drugs and unprotected sex are part of every orientation. Can gays get AIDS/HIV? Yes. Can straight people get AIDS/HIV? Yes. It's all the same.

Completely agree, as I have no researched it I am not highly educated on the topic. However, I believe to a degree that there is no fundamental difference between me and Charlie Manson; only that the latter had a chemical imbalance. Crazies are part of every species.

Not spelled out, however they do feel compelled towards some actions more than others.

This argument all depends on how we define natural.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/natural

Natural- Present in or produced by nature.

Seeing as it is present in nature I would say that it is natural.

1. I'm not bashing drunks, I was just clarifying a statement that I made that was wrong. Read my first post and you'll see it.

2. Same as #1, was just clarifying.

I completely agree, although as of right now the laws of the United States are *somewhat* reliable when it comes to ethics and moral codes.

One thing to consider in the debate between atheism and theism is that neither side has any proof to prove their point. Atheism has no proof that god(s) do not exist but they have never had to use the term "Oh god(s) were responsible for that" in any of their explanations. I understand this and as an atheist I have developed this statement to sum up my beliefs about the existence of god(s): While there is no proof for the existence of god or against it, I believe that when humans have a complete understand of the universe we will be able to truthfully and confidentally say "There is no god(s)."

Keep in mind though, while science cannot prove god(s) do/dont exist. The natural processes of life being explained through science and not needing god(s) is proof to me that they do not exist.

Every belief requires some leap of faith and while I hate taking them, I have to.

Hmm indeed, this is all very mysterious shit.

 

Skizm--If you're looking for an old white man in the sky, it's no wonder you haven't been able to see him. God doesn't "live" in the sky, he has no race, and he is not literally male.

I highly suggest you read "The Good Book," by Peter Gomes. He does a really good job of addressing the issues in the Bible that you bring up, and in more detail than the limited space we have on a forum allows for.

 

I'm honestly not looking for anything. All my beliefs are accounted for and I can explain them in materialistic and rational terms. Which means I iz happy

 

Yes. Dropping a knife into someone's head and killing them or pushing off an attacker about to kill you that ends up dying is entirely different than going after an old man in the street and killing him for his wallet.

In the context of the Bible, what were all the inhabitants doing when God decided to kill his creation? Being God, he would know something that we would not and probably saw it as the best option at the time.

I don't know how to answer the Elijah and the bear story tbh.

Sodom and Gomorrah, in the context of the Bible, was highly corrupt and were asked to change their ways for their own benefit. This is the group of people that were raping each other.

Issac making a comment about the killing of children. I just found that interesting. Personally, I see the Bible as having truth in history, but mostly used as some kind of moral journey for whoever reads it. What is right? What is wrong? How can I lead my life with love? I can't think of any other book to delves into these types of questions as deeply and as profoundly as the Bible.

Sure. What I meant was, what exactly disproves the God of the Bible and what disproves the Bible wrong?

Well, believe it or not, that's the context that the Bible itself uses to describe hell. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol#Sheol_in_the_Hebrew_Bible. Despite what other holy texts or philosophers reveal, that is beside the point. When we look at the context of what hell is in the Bible than it is two things:

In Hebrew: Hell is the common grave of mankind.
In the Gospels: Hell is a place one enters into while still alive. It's a state of being. We know this because Jesus describes hell by using parables and we know this through the context that is used.

I don't know how to answer that question exactly. But I will say that, if God is love, and God knows the ways of his creation while giving his creation both common sense and free will, then if his creation is doing something that he forsee's as hurtful then God is obligated to step in, but he only does so when he feel's that it is required. Look at God as a chess player. He chooses his moves wisely and only chooses the movements that won't hinder our autonomy while at the same time choosing the best course of action at the right moments. So in the end, God's will is for our benefit and his.

I dunno how to answer this question, but I will say this:

You can choose the right religion according to it's fruits. Meaning, the God of that religion seem loving. Is that religion supported by historical facts and if so, which religion has the most support? Which religion has the least contradiction or no contradictions?

To answer that question is to take an inner journey. The very fact that you see the Elijah story as wrong proves to me that the Bible has this effect on people.

Sure, I agree with this. But it is my opinion that the best guidelines that you describe available is outlined in the Bible. Sure, many things require a leap of faith but what I have noticed is when I actually tried what the Bible suggests I've noticed that things just start falling into place.

I don't really care myself, and I never judge people. In person, I am actually a very laid back guy and I believe to be a Christian is to be the kind of laidback-ness that you describe. I just believe that just because something is enjoyable doesn't mean it's good for you and that there may be better alternatives.

Many things happen in nature. But what is bringing about the action? Is it the choice or is it something else? So to you, I am assuming, that every choice that we have available is natural. But I can say that this is just a matter of misuse of imagination and not something that is inherently beneficial for us in more ways than just biological. There is a spiritual component that is often overlooked and I think that's because it is seen as 'subjective' and because there isn't hard evidence for it. But reality, imo, is something more then what we can touch and see.

I am using natural, in my context, to mean the best possible outcome that can bring about a life that can create a heaven on earth for the individual, or something that comes the closest to this.

Sure, I agree. But that's why I said that the marriage bed idea is more potent than just a preventive measure of contracting illnesses. I believe that there is a spiritual component to it. Because lust is weaker than love and sex is not love. And I think that when we resist the tempatation of lust and recognize that sex is not love, then we'll be able to discover and reach something within ourselves that was not thought possible.

I used to watch a lot of porn, but I noticed that since I cut down dramatically, the idea of lust is really starting to gross me out. At one point, it wsa the opposite. Which goes to show how if we resist certain things, we can take on more beneficial habits in the replace of not so beneficial habits. Religio means to strain, so when we strain we end up being glad that we did because it makes us stronger in all possible aspects. Sin is anything that prevents this improvement, from reaching this stronger state, and that's why we can enter a hell on earth.

I am not so sure that it was just a chemical imbalance. I believe that in the end, we choose for ourselves and we can grow stronger through resistance. And I agree, there really is no difference between anyone, but I would say that what makes you different is the will that you embrace. If you hold onto the will to power you may become a tyran. If you hold onto the will to pleasure, you will become hedonistic. If you hold the will to love, you will become more loving and more love will come your way... etc etc.

I see. Fair enough.

lol man, if you only knew the crazy shit this government does. We are the most hostile government on the entire planet. The only thing that saves us is the honest people that fight against the tyranny that's growing... just look at what Obama is doing. 1984 is manifesting itself itself reality and it's only a matter of time before it's a complete reality.... But I'll leave that to another discussion.

To me, seeing the intricacies of nature is proof enough for me, but that's me. What you need to understand is that God isn't always 'doing it'. He set out the underlining principals of nature and watched that grow. It's the pottery of God.

Also, I know you may not believe in this but spiritual experiences, while they do not prove God's existence, are still very real experiences. All that I can say is that to me, personally, the experience speaks for itself.

Yup, this is true. I just believe that certain beliefs are more worth the leap than others. I am sure that you do too.

It is.

 

I just got back home and had this huuuuuuuge response typed up. However, I think it best to just settle it.

We can go back and forth about our beliefs for eternity, let's just agree to disagree.

I have to say, I really enjoyed the exchange.

Mostly calling it quits because I'm buzzed and don't want to think to hard right now

 

Ya, I was thinking the same. Two opposing worldviews and I don't see either of us really changing their minds. Dunno if that's good or bad, but it seems perfectly fine to me.

I enjoyed the exchange too. Interesting convo

 

[Post deleted because I think my account has been hacked and someone is altering my messages.]

 

If he only loved. You would not fear him. And he knows that satan only runs from fear, and learns to love because of it. God does nothing but try to train his children. He lets them play and have fun, but no one seems to listen to him unless he yells. The children just keep on playing, the sticks become swords, and the swords become bombs. He says, "do not kill". The good children listen and the bad go on killing, and teach the good to kill as well. God's love is spread over all, but is ignored. So he kills the bad, he prunes the good vine, and destroys the bad vine. And when the children stop killing, he will stop pruning. All he wants is for everyone to love each other. That is all. And he knows best, and knows what he is doing, whether or not it conforms to what you have been told to do.

 

Our perceptions are what makes things appear to be "good" or "bad".

Murder seems fucked up to us but it only looks bad to people who live in fear of death. There is only one thing that is absolutely guaranteed to happen in our human lives yet most people live in total fear of it.

It's very possible that murder isn't anywhere as serious to God as it is to any of you since we're all gonna fuckin die anyway.

 

You can believe this if you want but personally, I take responsibility for my actions and do not try to duck responsibility by saying nothing is really "good" or "bad", "right " or "wrong".

 

That's not what I'm saying at all. I take full responsibility for my actions as well. I'm just saying we don't know how God thinks. It's very possible that while murder may appear to be bad to us, it could very well be the way God intended for murdered people to die. Not saying I know for a fact but it is very possible.

I personally feel there is no such thing as a mistake, we can't go back in the past for a reason. We can learn as much from experiences that went "wrong" as we can benefit from experiences that went "right".

God put us here knowing we are all going to die someday and God's Love for us is too immaculate and pure for dying to really be this horrible experience people imagine. People view death negatively because they have no clue what to expect but death is probably a lot gentler than people think.

And my point isn't that it's okay to murder someone, I'm just saying if murder was indeed the way God intended for certain people to die, who are we to say it's "wrong"?

 

Sometimes the forces of evil must be slain.

 

Maybe you don't know what God thinks but the Bible gives me a pretty good idea of what he's got in mind.

 

Oh so someone else told you what God has on "His" mind?

LMAO your religion depicts God as a male.

Why is that?

 

Yes, God. Too bad your "God" won't take the time to tell you what's on his mind.

Why not?

 

God didn't tell you anything, a book did.

And the reason God is depicted as a male in the bible is because it was written by a male, a human one.

 

Actually it's a letter, send from God to those who want to know the truth. So yes, God has told be these things and more.

Like I say, too bad your God leaves you in the dark on these matters.

Nice try but that's just your opinion and judging by your record on Jesus and the Sun God and on the word Amen, I hope if you don't mind if I don't trust your word on this matter.