Is Hoffman The Modern Day Christ?

that sums it up nicely! great post!

 

Hoffman definitley wasnt the first in the West, read Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman!
But Christ Consciousness is how I understand it, but I also dont think LSD gives it to you. What LSD does is simply remove a layer of maya and show your soul that there is more than just 'all of this'. But Christ Consciousness is God's thought process behind existance, and to be in tune with that is not something so easily accomplished, nor is it an oft occuring happening. LSD can bring you to Aum realization, and can prove to you God's existance behind reality. But to be One with God takes an entire lifetime of devotion (or many lifetimes) and LSD is just a push in the right direction for some of us, being that in our culture there is not much else to enhance the masses. After several hundred LSD trips and years of meditation, I still have not come close to Christ Consciousness, though I feel that the cosmic veil has been lifted for me most of the way. The importance comes after the trips, and after the yoga and the prayer, and most importantly, after selfless service to humanity and then selfless service to God. Bhakti yoga. But even that is far more difficult that just 'turning on'. It takes actual hands-on experience, that of which every single one of us here needs much more of.
namaste children of God, love and light shared with you all

 

LSD is subjective and what you think LSD does is very true for you. actually LSD does the same for me but it also does much more. LSD does more than just show you "that there is more than just 'all of this' ", if you have it in you to see, experience or even become more. LSD will "simply remove a layer of maya and show your soul that there is more than just 'all of this' " and what you do with that is up to you. but if you take LSD for other reasons like to change who you are or become something more you will find that LSD is capable of more than just showing you that there is more to it all. if someone uses LSD with the intentions of becoming the best person they can be than LSD becomes a tool of transformation - LSD can actually be used in a way that magically transforms who we are into a person at one with the universe. LSD allows us to become something that we would take lifetimes achieve without it - in western society it would be next to impossible for any of us to reach a state of enlightenment that might be compared to that of jesus without LSD.

i agree with what you are saying about needing many lifetimes to be someone who is comparable to that of jesus. but to say that we all need much more life experience to achieve this is very bold. how do you know? i am not saying that i or anyone else in this forum is comparable to such a person - what i am saying is that if there was someone who posted in these forums who was close to god you might not notice. you have no idea how much i meditate or how many lives i have lived. if you were open to such things(i believe you are) you would have already noticed that there are a few people on these forums who have lived many many lifetimes. i know that i am not a messiah. but i am very close to being what you seem to think is impossible. i will never consider myself the next jesus or messiah but i will most definitely at some point consider myself an enlightened master. i will achieve this before i die.(unless i die from some freak accident)

you don’t believe that it is possible for anyone to achieve the "christ consciousness" with LSD and for that reason alone you will not be able to achieve such things. the term 'christ consciousness' is just a couple of words. i would not consider my self the next jesus at any point even if i achieve what i consider to be a better consciousness. like i said jesus fucked up. like many others before me i will not seek out such an existence. i am looking to become the best person i can be. that means that i will continue to grow and learn as i become enlightened. i will have the same effect on people that other enlightened masters have had before me but i will never consider myself the next messiah.

whether or not jesus did it to himself or the people did it to him. the fact still remains that his effect on us was not exactly good. for some reason most people worship him and don’t consider the fact that he was just a man like the rest of us showing us that we can all achieve the same state of consciousness. we have somehow twisted it to mean that he was the only son of god and there will never be another one when in fact there have been many people who have lived out there lives better than jesus did.

just because you dont think that you can achieve the 'christ consciousness' with LSD does not make it true for everyone else. i am not saying that LSD alone will achieve this - it is up to the individual and their choices and LSD is only a tool. it is very possible that LSD could be the key to many peoples enlightenment. and who are you to say that someone can not achieve the state of enlightenment that they seek. anything is possible when you put your mind to it. people like myself have to be strong in our belief that we can become whatever we wish. we have to read what people like you say and tell our selves that you are only trying to stifle our dreams. if someone wants to become one of our futures saviors then you should be encouraging this not suggesting that it is impossible. thanks to LSD anything is possible. anything is possible without LSD as well but it will take much longer - lifetimes longer. i think that with LSD we can advance what might have taken lifetimes without it.

mara-aum said that christ means savior - in that definition anyone can become a christ. because people will naturally get confused when you use the world christ - i am going to say that i am going to become the best person i can be and become a savoir in my own right. i am not looking to become jesus. i am a good person - i do unto others as i would have done on to myself. i live out my life conscious of my effect on those around me. in many respects i am already enlightened. i am walking my path and i am not there yet but i will not listen to anyone who tells me that i can not achieve something because they don’t see it in themselves.

in the book 'be here now' by ram dass he explains how when someone believes that they are jesus after an acid trip they get locked up but when people realize what he did and that we are all jesus in our own right no one wants to lock you up.

 

Christ Consciousness is the absolute self mastery with which one can use will to manipulate reality.
Can you heal the blind by putting your hands over the eyes? Can you cure disease with a touch? This is Christ Consiousness.
Full on enlightenment is not just being one with everything 3xi, it is a state of BEING that Oneness, itself. It is beyond you. When you say "but i am very close to being what you seem to think is impossible" only shows that what you think you are about to attain is still lifetimes out of reach for you. And the fact that I am here telling you this means that it is lifetimes out of reach for me as well. Thus, I said all of us here.
How do I know that? Hmmmm.....how do you know that I dont know that 3xi?
Christ Consciousness is not just a couple of words my friend. It is the ability to use and bend and shape reality around you at will because you ARE reality.
When you love God more than any enlightenment, THEN will you know reality. Until then we are all just grasping at bits and peices, trying to make sense of the whole, when the whole has nothing to do with you or any of this. It is beyond it.

Anyway, I am not going to argue about who and what Jesus was, as it is interpreted differently by us all. I could easily say that your statement concluding that what Jesus did is not exactly good is nearsighted and generalizing, but Id rather not discuss the validty or the effects of Jesus teaching on the world. They are there to be used, and lots of people use them.

Btw 3xi I think its noble that you wish to attain enlightenment, but please, for your own sake, dont ever say that you will attain it in this lifetime if you are alotted the time in terms of physical and mental health because words mean nothing. Making claims like that goes against the entire means and ends of enlightenment. For now, you are whoever you are and should be content enough in that. Making such claims either makes you come off as overwhelmed, drowning in your own ego, or unsure, looking for a better tomorrow because today isnt good enough. When you can say that "right now, as I am, is perfect and I am ok with that" and leave the speculation of your enlightened future for the winds of adversity and the sands of time, then you will be in tune. As well as understand Be Here Now. -

 

at any rate, relayer is a hell of a lot closer than you. haha.


3xi, could you please explain why Jesus Christ "fucked up" in an organized manner than lacks attitude? Also, why are you so close to achieving enlightenment?

 

when someone claims that they are enlightened or well on the way to becoming it is not evidence to the contrary. it sure gives people like you avenue to try and suggest that i am not. jesus was aware of who he was - if he wasn’t he would not have been who he was. being enlightened does not mean that you must refrain from admitting that you are. as soon as you are you know you are. there were many people who argued that jesus was not what he said he was.

according to you as soon as someone says that they are enlightened they are not. because someone who is enlightened would not say they are. but why not - if you are an enlightened person you would certainly be aware of it.

attaining enlightenment is not nearly as out of reach as you make it out to be. no doubt some way of holding yourself back - maybe that is your karma.

your argument is that because i am someone who believes to be enlightened i am not. just believing that i am enlightened is enough for you to conclude that i am not. like when someone is enlightened they should be completely unaware of it or if they are aware of it they should know better than to openly admit it. the only problem with admitting that you are an enlightened person is that people who cant see past their own ego might try to suggest that you are not what you say you are.

what i consider to be enlightenment might not be what you consider it to be. i believe that enlightenment is a journey - it is about being the best person you can be. there are many states of enlightenment - some people are more enlightened than others. obviously your understanding of what enlightenment is does not agree with my understanding.

compared to your average person alive today i am a more enlightened. it does not take an inflamed ego to realize who you are. if you are alive you have an ego and everyone who is alive knows what kind of person they are. good people know they are good people and admitting it out in public might upset the people who do not feel like they are as good at life but does not suggest that the person is not actually a good person.

according to what you think enlightenment is you are right i will not achieve this anytime soon. how i understand your understanding is that i will only get to that place after physical life. i think that our misunderstanding of each other is because your definition of enlightenment is completely different than mine. that does not mean that either one of us is wrong really. all it means is that using words that are up to personal interpretation makes it very difficult for us to communicate this very difficult subject. honestly i think that if we could link up telepathically we would both agree. once you begin to understand how i understand the word enlightenment you will begin to understand what i am saying and agree with me. because you have read many religious books and i haven’t it makes sense that we both have different understandings of the word. if you were to apply my definition to the word enlightenment you would understand why i consider myself to be enlightened. but for now lets just say that i believe myself to be a good person and that i will continue to learn and grow as i live my life - i will reach what you consider to be enlightenment after this or many other lifetimes when i ascend. with my understanding of enlightenment i am already walking the path becoming more and more enlightened as i go.

 

Ken Kessey was a Christ figure, and Hoffman was more like God the Father...I guess that leaves Leary with the Holy Spirit? Hahaha...

 

One day the Master announced that a young monk had reached an advanced state of enlightment. The news caused some stir. Some of the monks went to see the young monk. "We heard you are enlightened. Is that true?" they asked.

"It is," he replied.

"And how do you feel?"

"As miserable as ever," said the monk.

 

oh my... an argument about the definition of enlightenment

I feel if theres more than one definition of enlightenment, then that definition needs some refinement.

I also agree that the truly enlightened will never say they are enlightened. Not because of some moral disposition about the issue. But because at true enlightenment, there isn't any moral disposition in the mind about it. There are no mental restraints of what to say, whats said is simply what is said.

Furthermore, I think this because as soon as anyone says "I am enlightened" no longer is there state of "enlightenment" a true state of being to other people, but it is a metaphor to others. YOU, your body, the energy you send out is no longer a metaphor for "enlightenment" in itself if you are having to use the word "enlightenment" to communicate the concept. I think of it in terms of magickal context in that, as soon as you apply the label "enlightened" to yourself you encase your state of being in the word "enlightened" and lose it.

But on an interesting, potentially very crazy, sidenote. I was reading a channeling from this women and she was saying that in terms of the new conciousness coming. 2007 was the year for clearing out all the old, getting in touch with what spirit truly is and actually bringing your conciousness to a state of constant, very high spiritual awareness. And then 2008 is going to be when we learn that we are "the true masters of matter" as she said. Eh... it got me intrigued to the possibilities atleast.

 

enlightened: To give spiritual or intellectual insight to. having knowledge and spiritual insight. people who have been introduced to the mysteries of some field or activity. wise through knowledge; free from prejudice. from dictionary.com

take jesus and what he was out of the discussion for a moment. but based on the actual definintion we get from the dictionary, to be enlightened isn't that far out a concept. this whole forum is about spiritual insight--that's all we pretty much talk about. many of us here have been "introduced" to the mysteries. you will note that it doesn't say achieving mastery of the mysteries--it says being 'introduced. being wise, being knowledgable--that describes many people on this forum.

i believe the problem is what the definitions we impose on the word that aren't in effect accurate. i believe that jesus could heal just by a touch. but i have been honoured in witnessing more than one spontanious healing...all from different religions & practices. miracles happen & jesus had a way of manifesting them with factory output. i don't know of any other human that has reached THAT vibration and ability--BUT i don't put that capability as the new definition for enlightenment. unless you can heal like jesus you aren't enlightened. jesus was what jesus was -he did what he did....and he said "I am The Way, The Truth & The Light" pretty bold statement if you ask me. the fact that he called himself the light is bolder than calling himself enlightened.
he claims to BE enlightenment....not just for himself...for all. he is the WAY. HUGE HUGE statement. he claims to be the path & the light. so does that mean he's unenlightened or does it invalidate every miracle he manifested into nothing more than an ego fullfilling magic trick? no way!!!!! he was a beacon and he new it and proclaimed it!!!! many of us forget...he also said that we'd all do more than him!

we've also seemed to forget the meaning of humble: having a feeling of insignificance, inferiority, subservience. to lower in condition, importance, or dignity; abase. to destroy the independence, power, or will of. dictionary.com

when i read the "actual" definition of humble i think i would never want to do that to another human being--so why would i want to do it to myself?
i'm not saying to be an arrogant asshole. but if i'm good at my job, why can't i admit that? if i'm good at the spirituality thing should i hide it? did jesus hide what he could do for the sake of humbling himself? if he did, none of the people he touched would be healed. its not that i say to go around randomly talking about the stuff you can see or do to show off your tricks (although some might think jesus did...turning water into wine at a wedding--pretty gratuitous if you ask me-at least with the loaves and fishes he was feeding people) did jesus hide his greatness. from what i read he stood on hilltops and proclaimed it--preformed miracles in front of thousands, was followed by huge crowds and what did he tell them??? that HE was the way, the truth & THE LIGHT.

 

Dictionary definition of enlightened?

Blugh, I'm done.

 

i really do find it hard to believe that jesus did some of the things people say he did like healing the blind or walking on water. when i imagine those things i realize that there is no real good reason to do those things in this day and age. if someone is blind they are blind for a reason - healing all the blind people in the world would do nothing except for have a bunch of people see that couldn’t before - in the big picture it would do nothing, or it serves no greater good. i think it is a great thing to have people see again but i also wonder why god didn’t give them sight - why am i questioning gods ways. i think that the person is blind for a reason. part of the reason for jesus healing the blind was to show people that he is someone they should listen to. people would be more likely to listen to him if he could heal the blind. in some way this does make sense to me and i guess i believe that it is possible. i think that jesus was making many mistakes along the way - like turning water into wine - what for? to prove you are what you say you are? because everyone thought you were full of shit when you told them who you were without proof(sounds familiar!...lol)... so ya i understand why he might be able to do such things - because his message is so powerfully important to us all it makes sense that he would be given ways to demonstrate to people that he is someone that they should listen to. don't get me wrong - if i could heal someone i would - its just that i can see a lot more important things to do in life than heal one of our sick. there are so many people who are in need of some sort of healing and in the future i am sure we will all evolve in a way that uses healing techniques. if someone is going to use magic it should be for something we all need collectively. healing one person seems silly when the whole boat is sinking! unless healing that person will get the rest of the boat to listen to your ideas because you know how to save them all. some of us become personal healers while others become healers in a different way through music, poetry and art.

i may not be able to heal the blind but i can write a song that can heal you.

now a days we are lucky in that we don’t need to learn how to heal the blind to be someone that people will listen to. why anyone would want to walk on water after what happened to the last guy who could do it is beyond me. in this day and age we have many people who have realized the best way to communicate a message. the best example i can think of is bob marley - he did not need to heal the blind to prove that he was someone that we should listen to - he presented his message in the form of wonderful music that made us want to listen. you can tell by the words that he uses that he is a very wise man - i would say he was enlightened. there have been many people in our history to achieve this through music and art. society tends to listen to those of us who create wonderful works of art. now a days people can even write a book or tell a speech and because of the words they use and what they have to say people automatically listen. not everyone will listen because there will always be people who do not want to accept you for who you are or people who will say that you are not what you say you are or people who just don't agree for some reason. you have to know who you are to know what you are supposed to do in the world.

many believe that jesus was actually crucified by religious people for saying that he was something that they thought he wasn’t. they say that jesus claimed to be the only son of god but i don’t think he would do that - if he did he was wrong. there is nothing wrong with walking a path of enlightenment and knowing who you are as you walk it. -that is just the way it is.

 

I don't think the bible gives a very accurate account of Jesus' life. The stories were written long after the fact, in some cases hundreds of years. So in many cases the folks writing the stories weren't even alive when Jesus was.

I caught a 2 lb. bass when I was 5 years old. A week later, as I told the story, that fish had grown to 3 lb.'s. Apparently it continued to grow in size as time went by. Just a few weeks ago a relative asked about that fish. He actually remembered it as a 5lb. bass! And he was even around at the time the fish was caught! I'm sure you understand where I'm going with this...

 

alright then, what is YOUR definition of enlighted? and if we're not supposed to check a dictionary for the meaning of the word, where in YOUR oppinion should we?

 

true.

 

There is no definition.

 

I, Me, My, Myself, etc. THIS is what the problem is Mara.

And 3xi my argument is not exactly that 'anyone' who claims to be enlightened is not based on their announcement, half of my argument was that you are not because of that very announcenment. The way you announce it, the way you 'help' some of the people on the forums, and the way you feel the need to defend your announcement as if it was your child.Adversity will strip you to the bare skin and leave you naked, more so than LSD will. Im not saying you are a bad person, but some of the arguments you get in here tend to lead me to believe you are not as 'holy' as you claim to be, or claim to be almost.
Enlightenment, now that is just a word. There are many definitions. Turning on an oil lamp in your kitchen would be one of them. It is not something you grasp onto and become it is more or less something you have always been and are right now. It is a falling away process, dismantling the 'me' that has been and is now holding you back from your soul.

 

I was reading an article the other day, it was making claims about a more intricate chakra system. It said the white chakra 'nirvana' resides right on top of the head. A little above the head is located the silver chakra 'guru' and then a bit further above that is the gold 'Sahasrara' chakra.

I found this interesting that they essentially outline three 'sub-chakras' at the top because I do find people who would have there energy flowing clearly to the top of their head, but they aren't necessarily fully 'enlightened' in the sense of 'guru' or a saint, there still just ordinary people by most external standards. But in terms of them being concious of the energy flowing through them, making them grow, in terms of the energy they have consciously embraced, they are the same as a guru or saint. Just they have work to do with that energy flowing through them before they can get to that level. Before they can harness it fully for humanity.

In essence what I am getting at is, I think many people live in the state of 'nirvana'. They've illuminated the chakra right on top of the head, but still theres a number more levels there they must build through with this energy there. "Nirvana" seems to be not in essence 'full enlightened' but rather it seems to be when you've come to understand enough of the energy level to KNOW how to utilize it to maintain yourself. As one thing I read said "Nirvana is the state where the candle flame no longer flickers or goes out".

Which in this context, I would not say I'm the enlightened. But I would feel comfortable saying I live in a state of nirvana by the context I layed out. Or atleast, I've come to understand how to 'get that flame still and going again' very quickly if anything does wobble it.

I relate this to Ram Dass's Be Here Now. Where he said something to the effect "It doesn't mean you dont go to work, it doesnt mean you dont pay taxes, it doesnt mean you stop balancing the checkbook, all it means is you are the one who through it all is somehow perfectly content".

 

Yea your right Ry, Nirvana and the Buddhic planes are up there with what I called the mental/causal plane. They are high, yea, but not the top.
According to my belief, the top of human existance is to embrace that which is manifesting your consciousness, your every continuing Now. That is called Kundalini and She is causing you to exist. To wake up as Her, not being dreamed by Her, is the farthest a human being can go. But beyond that? Nobody knows is the reality. We can get all enlightened and think we have a handle all we want, but when our body dies and the energy leaks out of every pour on our skin as the soul painfully detaches itself from phsyical reality, we will all be overwhelmed, swiming in an endless sea of confusion and realizing how far off we all were. Or, nothing at all will happen. One of the two seems to be the situation we are dealing with.
Like Yes said "In the end we'll agree, we'll accept, we'll immortalize..." and my personal favorite "After all, your soul will still surrender...After all, dont doubt your part, be ready to be loved."

 

Perhaps it's an unpopular view, but I don't believe there is any ability for anyone of us to comprehend anything about this place we are in.

If you were to be told what this place was, how it functioned, what your part was... could you even begin to comprehend it? Could you even imagine what it would sound like? There aren't even words enough to begin the description.

All that we are left to is mastery and understanding of the self and what oneness we are able to tap into. There is no true enlightenment, no levels of understanding, there is only yourself as you are, and yourself as you may become.

LISTEN to universe, don't dictate what it is.