Is it time to talk about guns?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Mar 24, 2021.

Page 72 of 136
  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    You're right I don't believe it.
    Well, since knives are more dangerous than guns, I'll use my knife,
     
    MeAgain, Apr 20, 2022
    #1421
    scratcho, Tishomingo and Tyrsonswood like this.
  3. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    It's not punishing the good guys. It's making reasonable regulations to protect the good guys from the bad guys by the usual approaches in the criminal law": deterrence and incapacitation (incarceration). They aren't perfect, but they improve the odds. While I believe that a knife can be dangerous, the range is more limited than for a gun. More people have been hurt by knives and other weapons, because they are more readily available. And yes, more people have been killed by accidents than by deliberated shootings. But I can't think of a mass clubbing or stabbing incident in recent times, and the victims have a better chance of getting away or taking out the perpetrator. Firearms are the mass murderers' weapon of choice, because they have a greater range and there is less opportunity for the victim to fight back and gain control of the weapon. If knives and clubs are so formidable as weapons, why do so many homeowners rely of firearms for self defense? And why don't more people go hunting with knives and clubs like our Neanderthal forebears? Judging from forensics on Neanderthal skeletons, hunting that way was a demanding undertaking. They had the same kinds of injuries as rodeo bull riders.

    As mentioned, that "right" was subject to the language : "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..." The language is still very much there, and until 2008 it was interpreted--throughout most of our history as a nation, to mean that individuals had no right at all to possess firearms outside the context of service in a militia.What happened? Politics! Republican appointments to the Court, including Justice Scalia who wrote the opinion in D.C Heller in a narrow 5-4 decision. Even Justice Scalia and his conservative colleagues recognized that the right was still limited by the power of the state to make reasonable regulations to protect the public safety. But virtually any effort to do so has been thwarted by the NRA and its stooges in Congress. The founding Fathers included a mechanism for amending every single one of the Bill of Rights. It's been done 27 times already. Let's go for 28 !

    Only if you respect my basic right to life to the point of protecting it against nuts like the New York subway shooter.

    But for the record, some obviously do, and have taken the lives of innocent Americans, including school children. No other western industrial country puts up with such carnage.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2022
    Tishomingo, Apr 20, 2022
    #1422
    MeAgain likes this.
  5. Alice in SC

    Alice in SC Senior Member

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    Are we talking about Legally Owned guns Owned by Responsible people? Or the Illegal Guns Owned by the Thugs on the Left?
     
    Alice in SC, Apr 20, 2022
    #1423
  7. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    Which "thugs" would those be?
     
    Tyrsonswood, Apr 20, 2022
    #1424
    Flagme15 likes this.
  9. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

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    unless you are black or Hispanic.

    You’re advocating that people take the law into their own hands.

    Typical uninformed conservative talking point.
     
    Flagme15, Apr 20, 2022
    #1425
    scratcho, Tishomingo and MeAgain like this.
  11. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    All of them. The" responsible' people won't mind background checks and licensing requirements, and shouldn't be affected by restrictions on assault-type weapons and red flag laws. The Thugs on the Right, as well as those on the left, should be restricted. The Right Wing insurrectionist nutjobThugs who participated in the January 6 "tour of the capital" shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a firearm!
     
    Tishomingo, Apr 20, 2022
    #1426
    scratcho, MeAgain and Tyrsonswood like this.
  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Who and what are "thugs on the left"? Does this even make any sense?
     
    MeAgain, Apr 21, 2022
    #1427
    Eric! and Flagme15 like this.
  15. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    Oh Boy here we go again, there must have been plenty of 420 happening yesterday,
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
    Toecutter, Apr 21, 2022
    #1428
    mcme likes this.
  17. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

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    you know, black peoples.
     
    Flagme15, Apr 21, 2022
    #1429
    Eric! and MeAgain like this.
  19. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    Toecutter, Apr 23, 2022
    #1430
    Eric! likes this.
  21. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Guns Now Leading Cause of Death for US Children
    In addition guns were the second leading cause of deaths among children in 2016.
    There were 45,222 gun related deaths in 2020, a record, and 15 deaths of black children per 100,000 in 2020 the largest number among any group of children according to the CDC.

    In the week of Apr. 13 to 19, this year, there have been 373 deaths and 755 injuries due to guns. ABC news
     
    MeAgain, Apr 23, 2022
    #1431
    Eric! likes this.
  23. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    Here we are again, the promotion of misinformation and fear.

    As the legal definition of a adult is 18 years old, therefore all the information provided is false and inaccurate.

    Another option based article, to push a narrative in the direction that is desired.
     
    Toecutter, Apr 25, 2022
    #1432
  25. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    If you read the original document it states,
    The article then specifically states the ages as 1 to 19 (youth) and as the definition of child, minor, and adult varies from state to state, and federal jurisdiction, and as it also varies as to the actions allowed and or taken by the individuals so defined I don't see how you can say this is a promotion of misinformation and fear.
    Well I can as I have discussed this subject with you before.

    You have no basis for your "therefor all the information is false and inaccurate", none what so ever no matter how you define adult, minor, and child.
    You may want to say the conclusion is misleading...it isn't....but the data (information) is verifiable data.
    And who says they are using a "legal" definition anyway??? Except for you.
    BTW, here are some legal definitions of youth, again not that the authors are using a legal definition.
    The maximum legal definition of youth varies from child to age 6, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 28, 30, 35, all the way up to 40 years of age...depending.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2022
    MeAgain, Apr 25, 2022
    #1433
  27. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/adult/

    Age of Majority by State in 2022
     
    Toecutter, Apr 25, 2022
    #1434
  29. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Cutter. I'm not going to argue with you as I found that to be pointless.
    You think this article addresses a legal age of adulthood, it never claimed that. You did.
    It talks about youth, not adulthood, so your argument is irrelevant.

    In addition I bet you never looked at the various legal definitions of youth I provided, with the legal documents.
    So believe whatever you want.
     
    MeAgain, Apr 25, 2022
    #1435
  31. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    I believe in facts…. not misinformation
     
    Toecutter, Apr 25, 2022
    #1436
  33. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    Naturally it would not address the legal age, as it would show that the article is inaccurate
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2022
    Toecutter, Apr 25, 2022
    #1437
  35. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    Agreed
     
    Toecutter, Apr 25, 2022
    #1438
  37. mcme

    mcme lurker

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    Steve Kelley 2018-02-27.png
     
    mcme, Apr 25, 2022
    #1439
  39. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    So let me address the latest incarnation of the debate in this thread.
    In post #1465 I submitted an article addressing a CDC report about the leading cause of deaths among those aged 1 to 19 years in the U.S.

    In reply I have been accused of the "promotion of misinformation and fear" by posting an article wherein "all the information provided is false and inaccurate" being published by a group that is "push(ing) a narrative in the direction that is desired."

    The reason given for the belief that the article and study was promoting fear, was inaccurate, false, misinformation, not factual, and bias was the fact that the article that reported the study used the word children to describe those aged 1 to 19. That's it.

    So lets start with the study itself.
    It was published by the The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC is a federal agency tasked with the health and safety of the nation. It was founded in 1946 has a staff of 15,000 including
    It collects data through the use of the CDC Scientific Data, Surveillance, Health Statistics, and Laboratory Information.The Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS), the world's largest, ongoing telephone health-survey system. The Mortality Medical Data System.Abortion statistics in the United States. The CDC WONDER (Wide-ranging ONline Data for Epidemiologic Research) and the Data systems of the National Center for Health Statistics
    And it operates under the Dickey Amendment, which states that "none of the funds available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control".

    This is the supposed bias organization.
    It is claimed that they promote misinformation and fear and that all the information they provide is false and inaccurate.

    Of course there is no data to support that claim.
    None whatsoever.
    We could call this an appeal to ignorance as the claim is made that it must be true that the CDC is bias as there is no evidence that it isn't, at least none provided by the claimant.
    It could also be an example of circular reasoning, as the claim is made that the information is false and that claim must be true as the claim has been made that the information is false.
    It could be a red herring argument. Look, the article used the word children, therefore all the data is wrong!
    And it could be an Equivocation. The word children, or youth in this case, is pointed at in an attempt to deliberately to confuse, deceive, or mislead.

    No facts have been presented to support the conclusion that the CDC is bias or promoting misinformation and fear or that it is pushing the narrative in a certain desired direction.
    So much for that claim.

    Later we'll look into the actual study itself.
    Meanwhile I strongly suggest that anyone report any individual, including myself, who posts lies and promotes fear and misinformation on this site.
     
    MeAgain, Apr 26, 2022
    #1440
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