Is ketamine safer than ethanol?

Cant rape you but :cheers2:

 

Nice input everyone.


I heard of an experiment done, there aren't any records, where someone was taking nasal ketamine sprays for acute depression and it worked successfully with minimal withdrawals if any, mitigated by medicinal marijuana if needed, the dose the patient required over the course of the day never exceeded 300 mg, and this was on a daily basis, slowly starting from 50 to 100 mg per day.

This has been over a six month period and on many occasions the ketamine use had stopped completely after one day and there were minimal side effects.

Beyond 300 mg per day (sprays in very small doses, I'm not sure exactly how much, over an extended period of time) the benefits outweigh the negatives because of over-stimulation and nausea, so limited use is key.

The patient never needed it in the morning, was taking an anti-depressant as well which may have been working, but the patient still suffered from acute depression towards the evenings. The ketamine spray is very effective against this in small amounts although the effects do not last long, some redosing may be needed, but it never exceeds 300 mg over the course of about a half a day.

Ethanol can be said to do similar things, but I believe there are longer lasting negative effects and less benefits.



I am in no way encouraging anyone to replicate this experiment nor do I encourage anyone to harm themselves.

 

Theres been kidney failures over it here and people pissing blood after long term use. A lot of street ket is cut but there is definite effects from long term heavy use and there is no doubt it is addictive. Just from the state of people in the city and stories from the UK.

That girl who spent 9 months in hospital over it had to have a bladder transplant, lots of complications followed the surgery though so it wasnt just the ket that kept her there, it was the reason why she needed the surgery in the first place though. Shes now working as a drug counselor.

Again, Im not condemning it since Im partial to a bit of wonk but its naive and dangerous to think its not addictive or without risk.

 

I don't agree. I have opened up way more on alcohol than most drugs. Why is this culture so anti-alcohol? Its a good drug. So good no one can make it illegal...

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm...

 

Interesting, thanks for the heads up. I will look into the kidney failure aspect and pissing blood.

I wonder if it is the pure ketamine that causes the kidney issues.

I remember reading that the preservative found in pharmaceutical ketamine was responsible for much of the urinary retention issues/side effects, and it wasn't from the ketamine itself.

I wonder if the person with kidney (related to urine) issues was using pharmaceutical liquid ketamine with preservative, but it sounds like you are saying she used street ketamine which I wonder if it was cut with anything and if that caused the issue...



A bottom line I see is that alcohol can provide similar benefit in smaller amounts, but the cost is greater and maybe this cannot be done every day, while perhaps it can with ketamine because the reaction time reduction/slurring/stinking of alcohol seems a lot stronger by orders of magnitude when being used and I think this mostly has to do with the time delay in drinking alcohol to desired effects, and this delay is bypassed with ketamine insufflation because of the rapid onset of effects.

 

Yah man, I can't say it was a direct causation for sure but I got a urinary tract infection during my heavy ketamine use. The stuff really is a terrible fucking drug. Also I had the most hardcore addiction to that stuff than anything else i've done. Far worse than cocaine and serious depression coming off it, like suicidal type depression, so what works for some or a select few is certainly not universal. The people who were given it for depression were probably using small doses too, so it was probably working much the same way they say 2 glasses of wine a day is healthy.

I was using sealed vials regularly too so it's not like I was constantly on powder shit.

 

Strange, I have not noticed any of that:

Was it significantly more than 300 mg per day?

 

Well when I did Im injection it was probably about 300 mgs maybe even slightly less, insuffalated probably about 450 Mgs. Pretty much always do two doses with the first one trying to k hole and the second just staying tranquil.

 

I haven't noticed the depression, although I notice it slightly, and it is similar to that amount, perhaps it is because of the anti-depressant working somewhat.

It seems like the only other issue is the UTI and/or kidney problems which may be of concern, since the patient has had past kidney issues although they are fully functional now.

I wonder what the mechanism of ketamine and UTIs is, from what I have read, it seems that it may be the syntheticness of its nature that may be removing the natural protection that is lining the bladder. I think this because foreign objects entering the bladder does the same thing, and perhaps this is what happens when ketamine gets in there.

Interesting about the prevention, I will have to try some of those.

 

Thats not too bad, when it gets to the stage of taking 8 grams a day though then theres something seriously fucked going on. Not got the nickname techno skag for nothing, turns some people into proper junkies...

 

i've gone on some pretty nasty ketamine binges, but no latent problems.

 

alcohol addiction can get just as bad as ketamine addiction can, considering the withdrawals can actually kill you... but if you had a hardcore ket addiction that would probably fuck up your brain chemistry much more (and bladder).

and as many people have said, its impossible to OD on ketamine.

 

I would agree that both can cause people to do things they regret, but I think more legitimate personal insight can be gained from ketamine and there never seems to be a hangover or physical cravings.

Then again, somsone said they had alcohol problems and had to quit for good even from 3 beers per day so maybe I'm fucked. I should check myself this summer but that's more than likely going to happen at the end of summer as I want to get the most out of this summer.

 

i've never had a urinary tract infection from it.. i think that's kind of folk lore.

a friend once got one from a fat mephedrone binge though.

 

Fuck you dude! I hate the it didn't happen to me so it must not be true attitude, especially coming from experienced psychedelic users.

That's like a type of attitude I attribute to 14 year old ravers on their first e pill.

You should be well aware by now that drugs effect people differently and it's just sad that you are skeptical of other people in the community, especially in regards to something like this that isn't the most comfortable thing to bring up. Also sad you are so absorbed in your own bullshit that you can't even keep someone noticed on a concert they invited you too and was looking forward to seeing you at.

 

chill broseph lol

ketamine doesn't cause urinary tract infections, bacteria cause those. Ketamine can, with extremely heavy long term use cause bladder damage.

Alcohol ravages several major organs even in moderate use. I wouldn't say ketamine is more addictive than alcohol either. We don't have any kind of data on this but suffice to say the addictiveness of alcohol is nothing to sneeze at

 

Even if it's not the direct cause, I'm almost certain it does speed the process along and it's hard to make any definitive statements right now as what the one study we have on it is from 2 years ago that actually said it does correlate uti's with heavy use.

"A study in Bristol reported in the British Medical Journal on 3 May 2008 linked urinary tract disease with ketamine use. Symptoms reported by users include an increased need to urinate, passing blood in urine, leakage of urine and pain on urination. These symptoms are associated with the scarification of the bladder lining, which leads to a shrunken bladder, erythema, and contact bleeding, and can then move to the ureters and damage the kidneys."[94

Again this is personal experience it's not like some propaganda being spewed by anti drug advertisement. I wasn't even aware of this study until like a week ago. It's like me saying "No I think long term depression from mdma is a myth because i've used it for 6 years and have not experienced it."

 

What about positive ketamine story?

I don't see (m)any problems caused by responsible ketamine use. Of course snorting it daily is very bad but how do fuck you start doing that. Why even bother trying to deiced what is worse... 2 liters of vodka daily or 2 grams of ketamine daily...

 

Well, that's obviously something gone out of control.

What I'm more curious about is the effects of steady use, like under a gram per day. I think that's something that's manageable and so is something like a few to six beers each day. I heard the liver can handle 6 beers per day before cirrhosis.

I'm not curious about rampant drug use because obviously that will cause problems.

 

Bad Fish do you have any more info on the girl you knew of that needed a bladder transplant? Start/stop dates for daily use/other use, amount used approximately, other meds she was on, how long after using did bladder transplant become needed, and how did she come to this conclusion?

I'm worried about the bladder shrinking issues (increase in urinary frequency) and how kidneys might be involved...

At least I know alcohol is 6 drinks per day for any possible liver damage, sad if ketamine couldn't be used in small amounts daily without organ damage because it seems like a very good tool for intractable depression possibly, at least in the short term, but if there were no organ issues, it could probably be used in the long term as long as the dose never increased higher.

I will ask the pharmacist about the bladder issues next time I pick up my prescription.