Is socialism possible in the US?

Actually, I would support the construction of apartment buildings, whatever you want to call them, where people that will not get off welfare would be forced to live if they want to stay on welfare. Welfare is supposed to be uncomfortable, because you are supposed to get off your lazy ass, get a job, improve your life and stop robbing us of our taxes. So, I guess that would be your "poorhouses". Nothing wrong with that, I don't think. You want free money? After a certain amount of time, you live in the poor house.

I don't know about workhouses, I know they had them in Dickens stories like Oliver Twist. But they sound like a manifestation of liberal policies to me. With a conservative government and expanding economy, people can climb up the corporate ladder, or get better jobs in whatever industry they are in. While liberals tend to keep the worker where he is, making minimum wage or whatever, and living in government subsidized housing. And that is where leftist governments want people, living in subsidized housing, because those people vote for the liberals.

Yeah, I do blame a lot of bogeymen for the problems in our country, but I'm not wrong. Because right vs left IS right vs wrong.

 

it gets funnier, but it never gets smarter . . .

 

And, you want to increase government's power? Even though they act at the behest of the wealthy that you demonize so much? How's that going to work?

I suppose the government may act at the behest of the wealthy, like you say, they definitely do the bidding of the lobbyist that makes the most noise. There is a group that we really need to take care of, the lobbyists. Why don't we hear more noise about lobbyist reform, and tort reform. Otherwise, I don't know what you are talking about.

I don't know you, bluska, or your financial situation, but you include yourself in the group of those at the bottom. I am not at the bottom with you and gardenguy's catfish, but I'm deep enough down, that I can't see the sunlight. I usually get the bills paid, and have enough to eat, but I don't have much in the way of disposable income either. But I can't imagine what it would be like to be poor. So, allow me to apologize, I don't mean any harm towards the citizens of our country that don't have any money, you included if you describe yourself that way. I do believe that they should be helped up. This is what is meant by being given a hand up, not a hand out. People should get help so that they can learn how to take care of themselves, not feed off of the public for the rest of time. Many people need a little help, fine. But I also believe that this assistance is more efficiently provided to the needy through charities and donations from private donors than through the government.

I do wish you the best, I do hope you find a way to make it through. And that is why I am a conservative, because conservatism is to the benefit of the majority of people. There are disadvantages socially (like weed), but the economic advantages to America as a whole trump those social disadvantages.

 

government does not have to act at the behest of the wealthy

except in [from what i've read] in the case of fascism, and [from what i've seen] in the case of capitalism

the eventual goal of socialism [as i understand it] is the eventual elimination of government, and self-rule by the beneficiaries of socialist education - persons raised to not exploit one another

elimination of government at the primitive stage of social evolution that we are currently in would be a feeding frenzy

but that's what you want, is it not?

 

If America becomes a Socialist country I will move! Like I said in the other post It looks good on paper, but it doesn't work out in real life. We will all end up like Cuba. I'm not for that shit.

 

Cuba =/= socialism.

The only thing the election of Obama has accomplished thanks to the tea party is people using the world socialism in ways it shouldn't be used, along with these asinine political debates that you can only have full out socialism, or pure laiszez faire capitalism. NEITHER ONE EXISTS IN THE WORLD AND NEITHER ONE WORKS IN PRACTICE.

Cuba =/= socialist
Europe =/= socialist

Any social welfare program is technically socialist in nature. Your local library is technically a socialist program, your state university system is too, as well as the subway system. OMG.

 

Is it helpful to confuse prejudice with contravening fact.

 

So, the US is a fairly socialist country already?

 

national-socialist

 

All nations are compared to how they were 60 years ago.

 

lmao you just want to segregate the poor so you don't have to look at them and admit there's poor people most of whom aren't poor by choice.

 

I think most of us, whether we know it or not, would hate life under a regime that was either pure socialism or pure capitalism.

Forget about Cuba. They have so many totalitarian facets to their regime that we can't use them as a meaningful role model for what a social democracy would ideally be.
I guess we could point to them and rightfully say that we are more free than they are, but that's just a ruse to train us to accept the status quo in the USA with our own totalitarian tendencies: favoritism toward industry lobbyists, de-facto oligarchy, the threatened status of independent journalism. We've got plenty to fix right here at home!

 

So some people are 60 years out of date?

 

Yes, i.e. people who want social security revoked, want to go back on a gold standard, ect.

 

^^^ around here, really old people who remember life before franklin roosevelt like the federal government

their children and grandchildren, who take irrigation projects and flood control projects and dams and electricity and well-paved highways and agricultural research and farm subsidies for granted - they are the ones against it

maybe the right is correct about welfare spoiling people . . .

 

Feeding frenzy is a bid extreme, that's not what I, or anyone else, wants. We just want the government to leave businesses alone to make money and stop taxing us so much.

Like I said before, many politicians oil the squeaky wheel. They do the bidding of the loudest lobbyist. That is a system that needs to be fixed. I grew up in Miami where many City and County politicians are very corrupt, on both sides of the aisle. They do the bidding of the lobbyist that throws them the biggest bone every time.

But there is another reason that government sucks so much. You said a while back;

In addition, there is massive government waste, cronyism, and the simple fact that they spend money that they don't have. Waste is huge. If you study something like the TVA you can see that there was a private corporation that wanted to build the dams, but FDR wouldn't let them, because he wanted to do it. But surely the private corporation would have been able to do it better, cheaper and faster than the government. The private corporations always do. Plus, you have the Senators and Congressmen and women sending pork out to all their friends, much of it is waste.

Plus, they spend money on projects that many people don't want. In the private sector, I get to spend my money where I want. In the government, they take my money away and spend it on stuff like marketing for the disastrous health care bill, funding NPR, giving money to people that buy hybrids or trying to convince us that Polar Bear populations are plummeting. Ask an Inuit, they'll disagree about the Polar Bears.

So, the point is that there are many reason why government sucks. That they are tools of the corporations because of the lobbyists is but a small part of the problem.

I think what we need to do is reduce the size of government, less taxes, less regulations and more prosperity for all. Except the lobbyists. Reduce the power of the lobbyists.

 

What the hell are you talking about. I couldn't find where I had said "stuff" and I'm not sure where I said anything to give you the idea that I said what you said. Please elaborate, so that I can show where you are wrong. Maybe I explained myself poorly somewhere.

 

yet that's what you'll get

that, and and even less financial stability than we have today

the solutions you and individual propose will help the rich and hurt the poor; they are a return to the past

 

Socialism already exists in the USA, but only in limited ways. The Eisenhower Admin was more socialist than the Obama admin. Socialist institutions include things like public libraries, public schools, public roads, etc. During the Eisenhower years, the highest income tax bracket was over 90%. Now it's something like 35%.