Israel now kills people on live TV

I was hurt to be honest.
Ok, not really.
You were fairly polite, so I took what you said as a genuine response...rather than a random attack.

The Israelis seem to think weapons will be smuggled in.
And they have.
Given the attacks on Israel, It is not unreasonable for them to be cautious.
But, you may say: "Israel is the antagonist here."
Well, then we get into a circular debate about who is at fault here.

I have just heard the BBC say this: "Another boat is going to break the blockade...and that Israel will show restraint and politness to the boat."
Now, unless my youtube clip is fabricated, that is what occured the first time. And the shit still hit the fan.

I am cautious, but it can't be true Israel is in the wrong every single time.
If you believed the media, it would seem that is the case.
True, you are not going to get an account from the activists that go anything like this:
"Well, I saw this dude coming down on a rope.
I thought: "WTF"...so when the dude landed I kept on beating the little shit till my arms started to hurt.
I could see he wasn't getting up, but, god damn, I was lovin' knocking seven bells out of him, so didn't stop."
Neither are you going to hear an account like this from the other side:
"I saw these people that looked like they were Arab's, so I got my gun out and started shooting."

There must be some truth to both.

I do believe the Israeli account and I do believe certain people on-board.
It is probably true, if you were not beating the shit out of one of the commandos, that the situation was scarey and there was violence on behalf of the Israelis.
And that all they were there to do was provide aide.
But they do not explain the behaviour of others very fairly....or at all.
Now, if we don't get an account from a person, on-board, that was kicking the shit out of the commandos, and why they did not stop after the 45 hit of their metal/wooden bars...
It is unlikely we will get a completely accurate account.

TheMadcapSyd wonders why tear gas, rubber bullets and tasers were not used instead of live rounds. Well, I now apppreciate that was what occured on the other boats involved (apart from the tasers).
It would seem, TheMadcapSyd, would be happy with that.

So, it seems different levels of force was used based on the levels of attacks beig perpetuated.
Now, if people are getting shot by live rounds...what does that say about the level of attacks being perpeuated.
The other boats were not boarded in the same way...would you agree?

Reading the account from a local person (where I live) ... http://www.thisisleicestershire.co....ACTIVISTS/article-2268770-detail/article.html) ...
It seems there was a stand off for many hours.
In that time greater support could have been brought to force.
So, now I do not think there were commandos from the very begining.
They seem to have been brought in later, as the situation escalated.
The situation was dealt with in a reasonable way.
But one boat refused to play ball.
And we all know what happened next.

Both sides have a massive PR machine at work here. Israel has itself and their supporters and the Activists have approx 80% of the mainstream media.
I would say the mainstream media wins (and has won) out here.

 

I just heard that effectively there is just one video available - the one released by the Israeli government. Apparently there were a number of videos take by independent journalist, but they were all confiscated. Could this be true? I wonder why. Perhaps Israel picked out the one that was most favorable - Naaaah - that can't be it.

It always amazes me how some can accept the word of an established government - one that has a history of deception - and ignore journalist. How about Israel's nuclear arsenal, or the USS Liberty - an American vessel sunk by the Israeli's at the cost of 34 US lives, or operation Cast Lead which by the end of an assault which targeted schools, homes, mosques, university buildings, police stations, ministries and the legislative council building - 3,600 housing units were totally destroyed, 2,700 sustained major damage and 52,000 houses need minor repair, according to a joint UNRWA-UNDP housing survey. Bull dozing Palestinian homes, assaulting Palestinian neighborhoods.

This reminds me of the old saying in Florida - a quote from Ben Hill Griffin - "I don't want all the land in Florida - just that which is adjacent to mine."

 

I'm sorry, but when an established , powerful government attempts to kill and destroy a impoverished people - I side with the poor. Call me crazy.

 

Hamas is still refusing to let the Aid "10,000 tonnes" from the flotilla into Gaza.

 

Big Whoop - Israel had just killed 9 civilians. Why is it some people just can not grasp the significance of a human life??

 

Big Whoop? I thought you were clear that you sided with the "poor" which in this case would mean the civilian population of Gaza.

So, it's ok for Hamas to starve them to death!

 

Hamas has no control over the Gaza border.

*edit*
Nvm, you are correct, but it's because Hamas is demanding all the aid that was on the ships.

Also remember those weapons:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hbF2mXvQ5ZIZZgopHVFB0DW7hShw

Did you know it's actually easier though to list the thing Israel does allow into Gaze than what it does not, it's an 80 item list.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/30_04_10_gaza.pdf

 

.You intentionally mis-lead. If indeed Hamas is refusing the delivery (which Israel will never allow) it is to keep more foreign civilians from being killed. Typical conservative reactionary reasoning. Again the convoluted logic - good is bad, bad is good, war is peace, up is down.

 

whenever there is war innocent men women and children die, regardless of where it is

 

Are you just making this up as you go?

This is the part that gets old.

 

No he's correct, Hamas is refusing the aid, but because it wants all of it, not only what Israel allows. It's actually a brilliant move, because now people are actually paying attention and more demands for the Gaza blockade to be lifted will come out.

 

Where did i mislead?

Hamas is refusing delivery, which Israel is "allowing"?

You lost me here, how is Hamas refusing aid keeping civilians alive ?


Your logic, When Israel denies aid to Gaza people die,When Hamas does the same it's for the good of the people........

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10236884.stm

Gaza flotilla: Turkey threat to Israel ties over raid


Turkey says it might reduce economic and defence ties with Israel following the deadly raid on a Gaza aid flotilla.
Deputy PM Bulent Arinc said Ankara was "assessing deals with Israel", once its close ally.

Nine people, mostly Turkish activists, died when Israeli troops stormed a ship trying to break Israel's blockade of Gaza on Monday.

Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan said he did not view Hamas, which runs Gaza, as a terrorist organisation.

In Friday's televised speech, which analysts say will anger Israel, Mr Erdogan described Hamas as "resistance fighters who are struggling to defend their land".
"I have told this to US officials... I do not accept Hamas as a terrorist organisation," he said.

Hamas, which seized power in Gaza in 2007, is designated a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US and the EU.

In Istanbul on Friday, thousands of people waving Turkish and Palestinian flags and shouting anti-Israeli slogans joined a rally at a memorial service for one of those killed in the raid.

Israel has been widely criticised over the incident, which took place in international waters.

There are conflicting reports as to what happened - the activists say they were attacked, while Israel says its commandos opened fire in self-defence.
Israel says it will not allow aid ships to dock at Gaza, fearing the cargo might contain weapons and other items it wants to prevent reaching Hamas.
Mr Arinc said on Friday that all military and economic deals made with Israel were now being re-evaluated, although he suggested no action would be taken immediately.

"We are serious about this subject," he told broadcaster NTV.
"We may plan to reduce our relations with Israel to a minimum, but to assume everything involving another country is stopped in an instant, to say we have crossed you out of our address book, is not the custom of our state."

The BBC's Jonathan Head in Istanbul says Mr Arinc has made it clear that there will be long-term consequences over what happened on the aid ships.
The government will be able to consider what action to take against Israel once the emotions of recent days - as Turkey mourns the dead activists - calms down, our correspondent says.

Friday's rally in Istanbul centred on a memorial service for journalist Cevdet Kiliclar, who was shot in the head during the Israeli raid.
Thousands turned out in Istanbul on Thursday for the funeral services of eight other victims.
The youngest of the dead activists, 19-year-old Furkan Dogan - who was born in the US but moved to Turkey as a child - is being buried in his hometown of Kayseri in central Turkey on Friday.

Meanwhile, the MV Rachel Corrie aid ship is heading towards the coast of Gaza, aiming to break the Israeli blockade.

Activists on board told the BBC's Andrew North in Jerusalem by telephone that they aimed to arrive just outside Israel's 20-mile (30km) exclusion zone off Gaza by Saturday morning.

They said there were 20 people on board, including five Irish nationals, six Malaysians and nine crew members.

One of the activists, former Nobel peace prize winner Mairead Corrigan Maguire, said their humanitarian aid shipment included cement and construction materials - items banned by Israel.

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said on Friday that the Rachel Corrie would not be allowed to arrive.
"We will stop the ship, and also any other ship that will try to harm Israeli sovereignty," he said on Israel's Channel 1 television.

"There is no chance the Rachel Corrie will reach the coast of Gaza."

The Rachel Corrie is named after a US college student who was crushed to death by an Israeli army bulldozer as she protested about house demolitions in Gaza.
The Israeli government has offered to take the aid it is carrying in by land, once it has checked there is nothing in the shipment that can be used for weapons.

"We have no desire for a confrontation. We have no desire to board the ship," said Israel's Foreign Ministry Director-General Yossi Gal on Friday.
"If the ship decides to sail to the [Israeli] port of Ashdod, then we will ensure its safe arrival and will not board it."

After Monday's deadly assault on the other aid ship, Israel's response is being closely watched, our correspondent says.

 

Only time will tell,
Turkey allows Israeli pilots to train in their airspace.
Turkey relies on Israel for tank and F-4 parts and upgrades and other high tech arms,over $1 Billion US, just in the last 2 years.
Turkey said they are not canceling plans to accept $183 million worth of Israeli drone planes this summer.

 

Israel needs Turkey more than vice versa. Israel is just convenient for Turkey, but Turkey is a NATO member and one of the US's closest allies, in terms of military equipment it will have no issues.

 

Calm research . . .aaahhhhh. A nice change from knee-jerk reactions, sweeping generalitites, twisted logic, loud angry unsubstantiated accusations. . . ."murder", "live" TV, "innocent civilians". . . . .I'd hate to be on the loud side, having invited dissenters to call me crazy, only to have real investigative evidence prove me wrong. I think I'd wait for the facts to prove out.

 

No such thing as facts anymore...only spun crap from insane fascist theocracys...(are there any other kind?)
We are a Christian nation. (76%) Christians will not find fault with Israel because that might mean not "G'wan up to heaven"!!!

 

Annnnnnnnnnnnd, the US is now calling the Gaza blockade "unsuitable" according to the BBC

 

Oh now them's fightin' words...

 

They are considering we've never said anything bad about it before.