Israel's Most Powerful Weapon--The Holocaust

Maybe you're right... I've read some to the contrary, but you very well may be totally correct. Let's assume for the purpose of argument that you are correct... Jews are a race. Is it not racist of them to resist racial assimilation with blacks, asians, arabs etc and to demand for themselves a racially pure Jewish state given that white european nations all over the world are being flooded with racially non-white 3rd worlders??? Yes or No?


After all, this is what Israel is all about: a nation for Jews who are defined as a racial group...Would it be racist of Jews to resist an influx of chinese immigrants to Israel for example?Yes or NO?


Given that Jews in American are, as a race, the biggest advocates of unlimited non-white immigration to America, why would they not support the same policy for Israel as aggresively as they pursue in gentile nations? Very very curious about this...Why the odd double standard... What do Jews have to gain from destroying the white majorities in white nations?

Consider the following quote from Harvard educated, Harvard affiliated, Professor Noel Ignatiev (racially jewish) who founded the virulently anti-White journal Race Traitor:

The goal of abolishing the white race is on its face so desirable that some may find it hard to believe that it could incur any opposition other than from committed white supremacists … Race Traitor will not abandon its focus on whiteness, no matter how vehement the pleas and how virtuously oppressed those doing the pleading. The editors meant it when they replied to a reader, “Make no mistake about it: we intend to keep bashing the dead white males, and the live ones, and the females too, until the social construct known as ‘the white race’ is destroyed—not ‘deconstructed’ but destroyed.”

Noel Ignatiev, Ed.M. ‘85, Ph.D. ‘94, C.A.S. ‘95, and a fellow at the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute.

How would Jews react if the quote was written as follows
“Make no mistake about it: we intend to keep bashing the dead Jewish males, and the live ones, and the females too, until the social construct known as ‘the Jewish race’ is destroyed—not ‘deconstructed’ but destroyed.”

​

Some additional quotes that are very strange but have been attributed to members of the Jewish race. Kindly explain what this is about:

"We must realize that our party's most powerful weapon is racial tensions. By propounding into the consciousness of the dark races that for centuries they have been oppressed by whites, we can mold them to the program of the Communist Party. In America we will aim for subtle victory. While inflaming the Negro minority against the whites, we will endeavor to instill in the whites a guilt complex for their exploitation of the Negros. We will aid the Negroes to rise in prominence in every walk of life, in the professions and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negro will be able to intermarry with the whites and begin a process which will deliver America to our cause."

Israel Cohen, A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century, 1912. Also in the Congressional Record, Vol. 103, p. 8559, June 7, 1957
-One must only look at the present reality of America to see that this has come about...




After all, if a white person would agitate for his native white country to remain white he would be considered an evil racist and white supremacist. Is this a racist double standard?? Yes or No??

If Jews are a race, and are acting in the interest of their race by engaging in racial separatism and pursuing their own racial survival strategies despite being the most financially successful racial group in the world, what does this say about white separatists who wish to emulate jews???

 

Bah.
Rhetoric and generalities.

I'm a Christian-Buddhist, yet I am also Jewish (race). By your statements I should be pro-Israel, pro-Judaism. And, let me get this straight - anti-white?

I'd like to think that the parameters for what makes you "white" torn down. What is white anyways? I am told this is my primary race (school papers, etc.), yet I do not identify/look it. Why? because I identify with my ethnic groups. If you came up to me on the street and asked me if I was black or white, I'd tell you I was neither and launch into my laundry list of ethnicities.

Is that wrong? I don't care whether you think so or not.

Is there a double standard when it comes to race? Absolutely. It is like that with every hot-button issue. People who are pro-life are generally pro-death penalty and visa versa.

 

I saw a neo-Nazi sticker that had been plastered in a restaurant one time that said, 'Death to all Race Mixers". Now there's a thought. If that was the case, the person that wrote the slogan for the bumper sticker would probably be the first to go.

Why? Because we're all a mix. I knew a guy who passed away last year that was just plain prejudiced against blacks. He had this "Old South" mentality about 'race' that you don't see much anymore. He was half Italian and half Anglo. He was shocked when I told him that, genetically, most Italians are considered to have African blood mixed in, due to the fact that North Africa was part of the Roman Empire for so long, and that a lot of intermarriage with North Africans took place. I don't think he ever quite got over that.

Every one of us is a 'mix' of 'races' whether we realize it or not. I am half Lebanese (Christian) and half Anglo. Does that make me 'white'? My Lebanese father considers himself 'white' even though he is as dark-skinned as many Indian or even Black people (I didn't inherit much of his dark skin).

So, what are we, 'racially'? I think we'd all be shocked if we really knew what was in the mix that makes up all of us, if we could go back far enough. We're all human. That's all that matters anyway.

 

umm hello...........

there was more than just piles of dead bodies. I saw men women and children starving to death. they were naked, and there wasnt an ounce of meat on their bodies. just skin and bones. it WASNT prisoners who died from disease. the gas chambers werent all that nice either. and Im not going to even mention the burning of flesh....... and the ashes raining down........ this was REAL! and it was sick, and something I wish no one ever has to see.

 

Dude...Illl say right now that I pretty much believe what I have heard about the holocaust...but I took a Holocaust and Genocide Studies class and even the teacher who taught it was Jewish and she said A LOT of what we have been told about the Holocaust is exaggerated to help Israel...and she said the Jews were targeted just as much as homosexuals or gypsies...it wasnt about jews it was about ANYONE who didn't fit the Hitlerian-type of person...It also really bothers me that in the world we live in now...were it is necessary to question everything...and free speech is a virtue that we supposubly all follow...that questioning EXACTLY what happened at the holocaust is such a taboo...I mean, if so many millions of people died there and we are supposed to just accept it at face value and let so many people get away with so many political manuevers because of the holocaust...then we should atleast be able to question it and question EXACTLY what happened there....I am in no means a holocaust denier...but i will admit I feel that jews were in no way the main target of the holocaust...and I feel that has been propaganidized into our public education system and into our minds from television...I feel the nazis targetted ANYONE who did not fit there ideal of what a perfect individual was...and the "Final Solution" did not just target jews...but EVERYONE who was not part of the Aryan Race...I feel the holocaust targetted Musicians just as much as Jews....If anyone wants to argue with me and call me an anti-semite for these views....fine...but it's my opinion and i Know for a fact I am not an anti-semite....that is just my two cents on the issue.

 

Topolm

One moment you are bemoaning the fact you just don’t know the next you are arrogantly claiming you can slap people down. One moment you are championing some viewpoint the next you drop the whole thing when asked to explain why. One moment you seem to be attacking Zionists, then Jews, then the Israeli government, which is it or is it all three?

Sorry man but you are coming across as a bit confused and your credibility is affected accordingly.

Look man, try and calm down, take a deep breath and trying and work out your ideas. Try going back to fundamentals in this matter.

In your own words and in simple terms try explaining what you are against, why and what you would like to be done?

For example -

Are you against Jews or Judaism? If so why? What would you like done?

Are you against Zionism? If so why? What would you like done?

Are you against the Israeli government? If so why? What would you like done?

**

(PS Lodui thanks for the bit about international law, which if you ask me seems to have no respect for linguistics)

 

Angel

“and she said the Jews were targeted just as much as homosexuals or gypsies...it wasnt about jews it was about ANYONE who didn't fit the Hitlerian-type of person..”

Fuck man if you didn’t know that, you must have know little about Nazism, Hitler, the Holocaust or even WWII. Are you saying that the level of education in the US is that low?

**

It also really bothers me that in the world we live in now...were it is necessary to question everything...and free speech is a virtue that we supposubly all follow...that questioning EXACTLY what happened at the holocaust is such a taboo..

It isn’t. But what do you mean by shouting EXACTLY? I mean it is well documented and new documents are being found but very few things in history can be known with exact accuracy.

**

“and the "Final Solution" did not just target jews...but EVERYONE who was not part of the Aryan Race”

However there was an extra emphasis on the eradication of Jewry because of their supposed involvement in ‘the conspiracy’ against the German people.

(which reminds me, you still haven’t answered how you are going to deal with ‘the conspiracy’ you believe is supposedly attacking the US, which I’ve asked several times, but most recently in the thread ‘Alex Jones’ http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175494&page=3)

**

 

Balbus, I am just playing devil's advocate to get people to think for themselves. Ideally, Jews who refuse to dissolve into the sea of humanity in the non-Jewish countres they live in should move out of all non-jewish countries and move to Israel. It is well known that Jews consider themselves Jews first, Americans second. You have argued or maybe it was Loudi that Jews are a race. They are hell bent on self-preservation, yet support policies in white nations that would undermine the cultural and demographic integrity of European native peoples. Does this double standard not trouble you? They are a nation within a nation.

Neo-con Zionist Jews will vocally support Israel while liberal Jews will also echo Zionist sentiments by providing campaign funding for pro-israel politicians and donating to Israeli and domestic Jewish causes. Their hyper ethnocentricity is well documented. When Jews feel like they are being attacked, as a race, they ALL circle the wagons: liberals, conservatives etc. I have a problem with this. A very SERIOUS problem with this. This is a form of racial separatism in action and elucidates with great clarity that their primary loyalty is to their own kind.

Jews are BY FAR, the richest and most powerful racial group in America, yet somehow they have "victim status" and have hundreds of organizations that agressively promote their racial interests. Given that they are so successful, why would they need such organizations??? Why would they haev to act in such a transparently monolithic manner?? It's very very strange.

Millions and Millions of people have a problem with this. My position is that ANY Jew who works in the best interests of Jews in Diaspora is a Zionist. If White Europeans were to work in the best interest of white Europeans on ANY LEVEL they would be considered nazi racist scum.

It's a blatant double standard yet is "morally" accepted because Jews suffered the Holocaust and cannot be criticized.

In effect:
1.Jewish racial solidarity/nationalism all over the world is healthy and morally beyond reproach. Zionism is Jewish racial nationalism.

2.European racial solidarity/nationalism is evil, bigoted, racist etc.

3. The legacy of the Holocaust and the use of the term "Anti-semite" is used to reinforce negative stereotypes with respects to (2.) ie all whites are nazis etc in order to silence any criticism of (1.)

Reconcile this reality!

 

Topolm

"Balbus, I am just playing devil's advocate to get people to think for themselves".

But does that mean we cannot take anything you say seriously?

It's akin to a joke

You say you find something a SERIOUS problem but if you are just playing devil’s advocate you actually are not serious and don’t find it a problem.

Which is it?

**

 

So Topolm everything you’ve said so far has been rubbish?

I must say it would explain why you haven’t been able to defend any of it.

 

Balbus, the main point of this exercise is for people to THINK about what I write so that they can come to their own conclusions. I may or may not support any of the positions I write of. You have come to your own conclusion already and are therefore not receptive to anything I write. And I respect that. That's fine. You are not my audience though.

It is my intention to catalyze other people's curiosity so that they can independently look into things and think for themselves, that's all. Afterall, people here are critical thinkers and I am giving them something to chew on. The fact that so many people are reading this thread is a very very good thing. I admire many of the independent thinkers here who refuse to follow the party line on things. I merely facilitate that sentiment.

 

Balbus, the main point of this exercise is for people to THINK about what I write so that they can come to their own conclusions. I may or may not support any of the positions I write of.

But how do people know when you are joking and when you are not and when you are just saying you are joking to get out of answering difficult questions?

**

You have come to your own conclusion already and are therefore not receptive to anything I write. And I respect that. That's fine. You are not my audience though.

How can I come to a conclusion about your views when I don’t know if they are your views or not?

What exactly am I not being receptive to if all or most of the stuff you have written so far is just rubbish as far as you are concerned?

**

It is my intention to catalyze other people's curiosity so that they can independently look into things and think for themselves, that's all.

But if as you admit this stuff is mainly rubbish how are they going to swayed by it?

**

Afterall, people here are critical thinkers and I am giving them something to chew on.

But you admit you think it rubbish?

**

The fact that so many people are reading this thread is a very very good thing. I admire many of the independent thinkers here who refuse to follow the party line on things.

But you admit the things you are talking about are mainly rubbish?

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To me that sounds like trolling

**

 

Where did I admit its rubbish?
Nice segue into saying I'm trolling LOL! Presumably as a pre-req to banning me huh? ;-)

 

I think what he means is you have taken away the basic criteria for a rational, reasonable dialogue and throw them out the window. Which is why many think you are a troll. In the very least, a racist.

When you throw out the term "I was playing devil's advocate," you negate all your previous statements (heated and quite biased). Akin to, "j/k guyz !!!11!!!!!!11!1! lol don't be teh h8ers!11!!!!", it's juvenile.

If you chose to use the "devil's advocate" card, there needs to be a level of objectivity in your arguement. Present the issues on both sides after stating your point. It shows the reader that you are just trying to approach the issue objectively and want to make sure a certain point has been given some time.

Matt (Pressed_Rat) is not the most unbiased person in the forum. He is quick to fire off his theories or stories that he has heard and place great weight on them. I have to sometimes believe that he places too much weight on things, but that's a different issue. The issue here is, if you are going to counter his arguement or anyone's here - there have been a lot of extreme biases - then counter with objectivity. Counter with facts, and sources. Cover both sides and press for your cause eloquently. Then those who have an extreme leaning against you argue with rhetoric, they will end up looking foolish to your calm understanding. It's a type of compassion.

Before you start crying, "You all claim to be hippies, yet none of you are open-minded towards me!!!" think about it. One, there are a number of people in this forum that would never assert that they are hippies. For whatever reasons, they enjoy hanging out on these forums. Two, as reasons previously mentioned; you don't play nice. Claiming that a book no one has read (or the ability to read) as your only source is fishy. Especially if it's embraced by white power groups. That alone throws it out as a fiction read.

As for me, I have given you the benefit of the doubt time and again. But I'm slowly seeing that people are right. You have behaved quite foolishly on these boards with your statements. Trolling as it were. This is my advice to you to be taken more seriously. Take it or leave it - but don't ask questions like the one I quoted from you.

 

LOL! I couldnt care less what you think babe ;-) Oh, I am very much aware that you have a whole spectrum of people here. Your ad-hominem attack is poorly constructed and wholly without merit. And no... How could I possibly be biased? I am not Jewish or Palestinian. I'd have to be one of them to be biased. I'm a racist? Not by a longshot ;-) I have friends from every race and creed. Doesnt stick.

And no, from the PM's I've gotten, very few people think I am a troll. Maybe you and a few others do. Close to 1300 people have read this thread, and its the same tiny insignificant handful of people responding to me again and again.

You dont like that a book I was talking about is embraced by certain unsavory groups? So what... the book was written by a holocaust survivor's kid. That's street cred right there like it or not. Same book Rat was talking about in his first post. You think Norman Finkelstein is discredited because certain groups you dislike support his findings? Are you silly? Are you serious? YOu employ moral pandering to decide what the truth is?

 

Without merit? Then I just imagined the last five pages of your posts?

The notion of "I'm neither of these groups, therefore I am not biased" is a weak one. You are saying that if someone was Jewish or Palestinian it automatically makes them biased towards their group. I am a secular Jew, so I must be biased towards Israel. I am merely restating what you have said(Please, correct me if I am wrong).

However, this is not the case. I am neutral in the whole matter of the war in Lebanon, the conflicts with the Palestinians, etc. I condemn the loss of life and the actions that lead up to it, but I do not openly support Israel, Palestine, or Lebanon. So, I no longer fit in your logic.

I also find it interesting that you choose to mention that you have friends of different "races and creeds". My race class that I took made mention of the fact that people who feel the need to justify who their friends are (in an effort to prove they aren't racist) often were unaware that they just admitted to being racist themselves. Why feel the need to prove that you are something you supposedly aren't? Your actions and words should do that for you.

Thirteen hundred is just the number of page views. It's not individual views. I have viewed this page multiple times, which I am sure you have too. It adds up. Of the PM's I've gotten, none believed that I was a troll. You say few do. I must conclude that you have recieved one that believed you were. What's your point?
Mine is: words are everything. You reveal so much even when you don't mean to.

A 9/11 survivor's kid could write a book about how it was blown out of proportion. Three thousand people didn't die directly from the terrorist attacks. Maybe, a thousand? The other two thousand were just people who couldn't get out of the building in time.

Would this be accurate? Elements. But would it correct? I wouldn't think so. It all depends upon spin and perspective. You're right if that's a point you're trying to make (and I am handing to you). But since you threw out the word, so will I: morally, is that the right thing?

As for a known racist group that goes around terrorizing people for their belief's/looks doesn't hold much water in my book. Especially since people who support those groups treat me like crap because I appear of a different ethnicity. You're right. I suppose that's my flaw: I have values and morals.

I also don't agree with Matt on many issues.

And please. Don't call me "babe". It's demeaning and rude. I have yet to use names or talk down to you.

 

I would have stopped acknowledging you right there.

I see no attacks from her towards you. Merely stating facts. Sorry if the truth supports such a low opinion of you.

The good old "how can I be racist? I have black friends" card. Classic.

PMs from your mother and whatever friends you paid to join and PM don't count. I suspect that all your alleged PMs came from Matt..seeing as he is the only one who shares your vastly illogical debate material.

AHAHAHA!! you actually think that 1300 different people viewed this thread?

n00b.

Not really. It's kinda like trying to quote The Turner Diaries and Mein Kampf
as unbiased and factual sources.

Mein Kampf was written by a man who was Jewish by birth...does that justify his hatred towards Jews?

If a black man writes a book about how black people should be enslaved..is that right? Does that exempt him from being a hateful, bigot?

Ignoring the fact that you actually said "street cred" for a moment...let me remind you that this guy is allegedly the child of a Holocaust Survivor. That does not make him the foremost expert with first-hand experience on the Holocaust.

Your defense of his *snorts* street cred holds little water but it's entertaining watching you try so hard.

If Neonazis, skinheads, and the KKK use his books to support their agenda and hatred...then yes...he is discredited. Anyone who fuels such stupidity is automatically discredited.

I see nothing silly about anything she has stated towards you. However, you...

That would go without saying.

You who preaches hatemongering towards an entire group of people is accusing someone else of moral pandering?

Go back over to the Prussian Blue message boards, please.

 

Yup... You got me. I'm a card carrying stormtrooper and neo-nazi at that... Moron. I support Palestinian and muslim agitation against zionist imperialism which has massive support in the Jewish community. I am also opposed to radical destructive critique of gentile culture by Zionist intellectuals which has been the most destructive force in western civilization ifor the past 70 years. But I take it you cant wrap your little pea brain around this. You're the apologist for them and merely deflect from the main point of this thread, making you the hateful racist.

 

While I'm not anti-semitic, sometimes I wonder what the world be like today if Hitler and his regime had just a few more years to finish up what they started.


The plan was to exterminate all 11 million jews in europe, but they only succeeded in exterminating 6 million.

I wonder what the world would be like today without zionist influence :H




Hotwater

 

Topolm

You claim to be presenting a devils advocate argument, that is putting forward a argument you don’t agree with.

Which means you can’t defend it or debate it with any seriousness (as you haven’t).

So what is the point?

I mean anyone can say something like “the sky is green” or “the earth is flat” and then when asked for the proof claim they don’t actually believe the statement.

So what is the point?

Someone might claim that it is to give another viewpoint, but is it, if they can’t defend it and claim they don’t believe it, the viewpoint is useless.

So what is the point?

The only thing I can think of in this case is that you are presenting what are to many controversial subjects, just to get a raise out of people, for fun.

That is trolling.

So I think you need some time out, so your banned for ten days, if or when you return please come back and present your own opinions so we can discuss them in a sensible manor, but if you wish to carry on being a joker then I think you should go to the humour forum, because trolling in the politics forum will only get you banned again.

If you are caught trying to get back on the site before you time out is complete then your period my be extended or made permanent.

**

To others

This has nothing to do with the subject matter and all to do with the way the subject matter is being presented by Topolm, he is not debating something he is just playing silly buggers.