Jumpergate - Cameron believes wrapping up warm is way to beat rising energy bills

What are you talking about? You do realise he didn't say this?
What makes you think: 'Cameron will have us breaking up our wooden furniture and starting fires in the middle of our living rooms by the time he's finished...'? 'The tories are demonising the working class,screwing the middle class,and sucking the cock's of the upper class.' How so?

Neither do I

 

Most peope that do waste energy do not believe in it either They are either ignorant or don't give a shit.

 

Pardon?

 

They don't believe in wasting energy.

 

Ok ... I get it.

 

Dressing warmly in the winter and saving energy is a good idea, but it comes across as a bit of a "let them eat cake" type of comment easily offered by the well-to-do as a solution for the poor.

 

Well, that was the point certain people were trying to make, even though he never dropped himself into such a obvious trap. Cue



It must have been a slow news day...

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...rsial-newsnight-decision-jeremy-paxmans-beard

 

Just check out how Osborne's best mate made about 15 million out of the Royal Mail sell off.I don't have time for details.I don't know why you continue to defend the system.Can't you see it's totally fucked? Some of the things that are coming out of the Tory camp are hideous.One educational advisor to the education secretary Michael Gove was saying how there were too many people studying "Anthropology and literary theory".How do you guess Tories have contempt for subjects that actually get people to think and question? They don't want a people that can self-actualise and truly live,they just want a docile and obedient workforce to swallow their sugared yet internally bitter pill.Of course Labour are no better,but they have to play the same game because the market square dictates policy and no one with original ideas gets a look in,because we are trapped in this historical circumstance,this banal attempt at mass-hypnotism.

I realise and understand that Britain is trying to function in a imperilled world economy,and that there is really not a lot the Tories can do to improve things.But the fact is,and it is a fact,the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer from this crisis,whether by design or not,and this is a desperate attempt at money grabbing from the upper echelons before the next crash hits.

I am left-wing,and I shouldn't have to apologise for it.It's time to be outspoken.I know my pathetic whining won't sway you from your facile and frankly incomprehensible defence of the status quo Odon.That is up to you,and you seem like a very intelligent man.It's just that when push comes to shove I am radical,and most definitely not a supporter of the Conservative party.There,I've said my piece,and you can all laugh and ridicule me for being a naive idealist.I don't exist.

 

I would have thought the thread e.g. was a good reason why detail does matter. You can add detail when ever you do have time for it...

When did I start?

Such as?

I think I need those blasted things called details on this one...

I would not laugh or ridicule with out good reason. I would hope the feeling is mutual. I just need a few more details about what you are talking about:

Osborne's best mate made about 15 million out of the Royal Mail sell off

One educational advisor to the education secretary Michael Gove was saying how there were too many people studying "Anthropology and literary theory"

Some of the things that are coming out of the Tory camp are hideous


These things never seem to be as black and white as some seem to wish for it to be....

 

Yeah it's really cool to be blasé about wealth inequality isn't it.I gather you are not exactly rich Odon,and nor am I...I'm a generalist.I just try to give an impression.When it comes to things like this I'm not good with the finer details.I'm basically a clever idiot.I don't know why I'm even arguing with you.It's just that sometimes you seem to bend over backwards to say everything is okay and acceptable.Oh what the hell...It's really not worth it.It's as though you focus in on the minute details but don't see the bigger picture,which I know you can see but choose to try and justify.I don't mean to get personal.I'm just some weirdo sitting here trying to make sense of stuff.To be honest the only politicians I ever really like were people like Neil Kinnock and Roy Hattersley.Bumbling fools like me I guess.I don't like this new school of politicos.They all look they should be working in business.But I guess that's what running a country is.It's just business.

 

I was snoring because that is a cliche, a rather lazy cliche.

To be fair, I don't really think there is such a thing as 'wealth inequality'.

Well, I'm not going to agree or accept what you say if I have no real details... I will have to look at the details for myself...
I know some people are happy with the broad strokes, I'm just not one of them...

 

Odon likes to argue. He sometimes argues disingenuously and baits people into arguments.

It was trite but true.

Ok Mr. Where-is-your-evidence, sounds like you have some explaining to do.

 

Why does he hate nudists? They like to be warm too

 

I can't really argue with the dictionary definition of 'inequality'.

noun
1.
difference in size.

But the opposite of 'wealth inequality' is 'distributive justice'

When framed as why are neither of us 'rich' and why are both of us 'poor' (relatively speaking) - then there are answers to that - the choices we made.
I don't believe I have a right to be 'rich' or have more than I do 'just because' - which seems to be where 'wealth inequality' and 'distributive justice' come into play. So, I'm going to reject both concepts.

 

If I know the other person is being disingenuous - why shouldn't I?

 

Can you point to a specific case where I have argued disingenuously?

 

I wasn't talking about you in particular, but if you want an e.g., imho:

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=463344&f=51

 

yes burn the bastard, the amount of hot air he has could keep us going for years

 

Nor can I

So you are saying rich and poor people are about the same size, so there is no such thing as wealth inequality?

We should acknowledge that there is massive and growing wealth inequality. We may debate whether we think wealth inequality is good or not, in so far as "good" is subjective.

That the opposite of one thing is bad does not make that one thing good.

I agree that no one has a right to be rich. I also agree that one's choices are relevant to one's wealth, and that people have to take some level of personal responsibility for their own incomes and livelihood. I don't think that we should take all wealth and simply redistribute it to all people.

There are, however, big problems with the distribution of wealth.

1. Wealth distribution often has little to do with producing real value, and is often inversely proportionate. Consider Wallstreet investment bankers involved in the sub-prime mortgage trade. They deceived home buyers into taking out mortgages that they couldn't afford, then securitized those loans and deceived the buyers. When the whole thing went bust, they were "too big to fail", so the public had to bail them out. They transferred billions of dollars from others to themselves, while harming society in the process.


2. Governments in democratic societies have an obligation to give fair representation to all of their citizens, but in many cases they have failed to do that. Often it is because wealthy people manipulate elections and the policy making process


4. Wealth distribution often (not always) has little to do with one's choices. Did the bankers have to face the consequences of their choices? No. Are people who inherit wealth rich because of their choices? No.

Certainly in many cases, a person becomes wealthy because they are talented and hard-working, and wealth is the reward that they get for doing something which is good for society.

Other factors influence wealth however. People often become rich because of who they know. People often become rich because they are willing to do selfish or immoral things to acquire that money. People often become rich without really doing much to make the world better, and often make it worse off. People often become rich due to luck.

5. A small portion of people have absurd amounts of wealth while many do not have even the basic material elements necessary for health or even survival.