Kesey Vs. Leary

Sorry man but I don't think a few kids on a message board could make a difference in the legality of LSD. I don't think a few million kids could either, has to do with other factors. Like the way your stomach feels if you look at a dollar bill on LSD. Or the emotions that run through your head when you're on L and think about how you waste 40+ hours of your life a week to be part of a machine. A machine that accomplishes nothing but the opposite of the way L makes you think. I think this is more like the main reason the current society couldn't have legal LSD.

 

I love both but dosing people who ar'nt ready for it can freak 'em out. Love Peace Freedom and Revolution Where's the pure Sandoz LSD-25?

 

libertine, i have great respect for Leary, but i think he took the chemical too seriously, now before i get flamed i know how profound and amazing things can be with a serene setting, but by no means should you be completly trusting to it being a form of enlightenment, in my humble opinion if it was ment for us to reach something then it would have nbeen on earth already, like the mush... but hey i dont want to offend anyone or anything so im gonna end it right here. much love to you all!

 

kesey was a great writer man i mean...sometimes a great notion...wow...

 

yeah as much as i like leary, i disagree with saying that he was "right" and kesey was "wrong", or lable anything about enlightenment through lsd as being a fact. i think doing so would be to comprise leary's intentions. even he said that 1/3 of his ideas were just alright, 1/3 were horrible, and 1/3 were great. if u read leary's books, he's telling people open their minds, to find new ideas and try different ways of living. to conform to leary's ideology would contradict his ideology, if u know what i mean. i say find your own philosophy, conform to nothing, try it all - kesey, leary, descarte, nietzche... the list goes on forever

 

yeah i will say in kesey's defense that his way of communicating ideas was more artistic, writing stories as opposed to textbooks. leary was in way trying to inspire all people to do for themselves what kesey was doing on a massive scale - i mean much of what kesey was doing could be considered a work of art, the bus, acid tests w/ live bands. but in the case of using the chemical which inspired this, kesey put out too much too soon. i think a lot of people started to focus mainly on the drug and its aura, which is pretty much what the drug culture has become today (but worse)

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Ken Kesey.

But, I do think his method contributed to the illegalization of LSD much, much quicker.
Just my opinion.

 

*nods* i agree

 

kesey followed his feelings and vibes and had some people follow him but he really did his own thing and simply considered himself a 'pioneer' not a 'teacher' as i believe he has said. i have great respect for leary and his ideas but yes it really comes down to whether you prefer a scientific/spiritual or recreational approach to the miracle that is lsd.

i dont think kesey or those who voted for him have anything to do with the closed-minded people governing the US (and the world, for the most part). i dont know what ever happened to free will (lawmakers apparently dont trust it) but it seems that if someone wants to do something like lsd or w/e they should make it their business to educate themselves and know what theyre getting into before partaking. like i said, ken did his own thing and didnt make it his responsibility to inform everybody of the effects etc of lsd use. he (and the pranksters lets not forget them) simply provided an outlet--the acid tests.

i could go on for a long time about this so its hard to cut myself off but for all i know im completely off base so if thats the case, please let me down easy. oh yeah, and im definitely down with ken.

so 'turn on, tune in, and drop out' and remember...'nothing lasts'

peace and love

 

KESEY vs. LEARY (or APPLES vs. ORANGESunshine):

Leary was about Eastern Religious Philosophies, toward: "the inward journey", meditation, Tai Chi, mind expansion, spiritual evolution, and as a psychologist (his main career) he wanted to expand conventional psychology toward new dimensions. He was more serious (but not always) and more scientific minded (clinical). He even wrote a popular personality test for the CIA, that is called "THE LEARY", which is probably still used today. His LSD psychotherapy methods for treating alcoholics was very effective (66% SUCCESS RATE!, supposedly the highest rate). Of course he became a LSD Guru and departed from his conventional ways, somewhat.

Kesey (a graduate student of Stanford University's creative writing program) was ALL AMERICAN (and even dressed in American Flag-type of outfits) and VERY FLAMBOYANT! He was about a multi-media CIRCUS. A fun, festive (THE TRIPS FESTIVAL) CARNIVAL. A more "party" atmosphere, with "Electric Kool Aid" and "Merry Pranksters" (very Sufi). He was the Court Jester of Acid Follies. He was creative (a novelist), artsy ("Further" the bus) and colorful (Day Glo helmet). He assaulted our senses. He was on Leary's "sensual-sensory" level of the psychedelic dimensional chart.

It was East vs. West and clinical vs. media follies. They didn't conflict each other, they just complimented each other. To put it in old 60's slang: The did their own thing, man. Had their own "bag" and "scene". But Kesey vs. Leary is more complicated than we believe! It involves the CIA and espionage! There is alot of this CIA and LSD connections in the book: ACID DREAMS: THE COMPLETE SOCIAL HISTORY OF LSD: THE CIA, THE SIXTIES, AND BEYOND, By Martin A. Lee & Bruce Schlain, GROVE PRESS, NY, 1985, 1992

To add to this book, check out the following mind-blowing articles:

"Tinker, Tailor, Stoner, Spy: Was Timothy Leary a CIA Agent?", By Mark Riebling
www.markriebling.com/leary.html, and:

"The CIA Created the Drug Culture", By Henry Makow Ph.D. Plus: Comments for "The CIA Created the Drug Culture'.
www.savethemales.ca/000907.html

"The High and the Mighty: JFK, MPM, LSD and the CIA" - Excerpts from a series by G. J. Krupey, Steamshovel Press #12
http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=8808

Timothy Leary had many connections and encounters with the CIA, but was he a full bloodied CIA agent? Mark Reibling's conclusion is that he is unsure, but has strong beliefs toward this idea. Henry Makow Ph.D. is also unsure, but at least believes that Leary was at least "duped", or controlled by the CIA, without being a true agent. Leary was asked this question, and he responded that if he was: "I never received a dime!". Many things he did said yes, but many other things he did said no. Personally, I believe that he was just "used" by the CIA, for their hidden agendas, and wasn't a true CIA agent.

Timothy Leary's basic information is correct and trustwothy. Hey, the CIA bought it (i.e Leary's personality anaylsis test-THE LEARY). If it's good enough for the CIA, it must be worth something. After WWII, under "Operation Paperclip", NAZI scientists and Gestapo agents of the SS, were brought over to the USA, to form the CIA. Many people bitched about this one, back then (before I was born). But the NAZI's had developed the following technologies: a rocket plane, the first operating jet plane, rockets (V2), primitive flying saucers, a nuclear reactor and atomic/hydrogen bombs. It was important to our military and defenses. The Russians also got a hold of NAZI technologies. So the CIA is very NAZI, and not so "freedom loving", like TRUE AMERICANS want to be.

Ken Kesey got turned on to LSD, by volunteering as a "guinea pig", for a study in "psychotomimetic drugs" at the Veterans Hospital in Menlo Park, CA. A few weeks later he took a job, in this hospital, as a night attendant in the psychiatric ward. He had access to many psychedelic drugs, like LSD, IT-290, etc. and used them to party with his friends and expanding their minds in the collegiate bohemia of Penny Lane (Palo Alto, CA). Under LSD enlightenment, he wrote his first novel: One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. This study was probably set-up by the CIA, being a federal hospital.

To the CIA, LSD was a: POTENTIAL NEW AGENT FOR UNCOVENTIONAL WARFARE, 5 August 1954, CIA/SI 101-54. To them, it was to be used like a type of "chemical weapon" to disable the enemy. Also, it was used as sort of a "truth serum" for interrogation and maybe, for brainwashing. They had only military uses. The CIA experimented on civilians (without their knowledge), and today, there are "lawsuits" on this one, especially in the ones that ended in suicide. Some speculate, that Haight-Ashbury, was a massive CIA "guinea pig" study on LSD. Who knows? Maybe not, also.

"One of Gottliebs partners was Dr. Harold Wolff, who appears to be a Paperclip doctor. He worked with Parke-Davis and "...remained closely connected with the M-K Ultra brainwashing project." (P191) He helped set up an apartment and introduce LSD to the hippies in San Francisco, and worked on Project Mindbender (a Manchurian-Candidate type operation) with William Buckley."
BOOK: Journey Into Madness: The True Story of Secret CIA Mind Control and Medical Abuse by Gordon Thomas (Bantam Books, New York, 1989)

Before LSD, the CIA used something called "acetate THC", as an effective truth serum. You boil pot in acetone (a solvent), then strain. If it evaporates, it turns to HASH OIL. I just learned of this fact form Mark Riebling's article, yesterday. It's new to me, but not totally. Once, being scientifically minded, I boiled pot in isopropyl alcohol (99%), strained, evaporated, to get HASH OIL. It was powerful! I only did this once in the 70's. I never knew about the CIA's "acetate THC", until yesterday. I guess I made "isopropyl THC". NEVER use WOOD ALCOHOL (METHYLALCOHOL or METHANOL) as a solvent, unless you like to go blind and/or die! It's TOXIC! Learn something new everyday.

But the HIPPIES found GOD, man, and became spiritual! They became anti-money, anti-war and anti-establishment. NOT the CIA's true goals for social conditioning. The CIA found better chemicals and methods, so lost interest. LSD was too "unpredictable" for them, for any use. This may be the TRUE reason why LSD was made illegal. Another speculation is that the CIA wanted to have the magical, alchemical, i.e. LSD, ALL TO ITSELF-exclusively, and didn't want no one else to have it! LSD is more spiritual, than military. I believe that LSD connects one to hyper-space and is just not an illusion. Now it works for hippies and not the CIA. What about those new, funny street drugs (Research Chemicals), like: bromo-DRAGONFLY, etc.? More CIA guinea pig experiments? Or just a money hungry drug dealer? Who knows? There's more questions, than answers in, the world of espionage.

Countercultural icons like: William S. Burroughs, White Panther Leader John Sinclair and Merry Prankster Ken Kesey thought strongly about: "the theory that Stark, Leary, and Orange Sunshine (LSD) are all part of CIA plot to discredit and neutralize the radical left." (Mark Riebling article). This adds to the intrigue of Kesey vs. Leary.

As far as my LSD philosphy, I am closer to Leary, because he has valuable and useful information (despite CIA connections) and I'm more cautious like Leary, but I'd just like to be like Kesey. Life should be fun, festive and like a carnival, but with some responsiblity. I am more AMERICAN, than FAR EASTERN. So, I choose KEN KESEY, if I had to chose today. Obviously, I like to write like Kesey did. I told you that this issue is much more complicated than thought. Read the above book and articles if you want to learn more about Kesey vs. Leary.

Kesey was: "As American as APPLE pie!", Leary had strong associations to ORANGE Sunshine (LSD, via Ronald Stark), thus, APPLES vs. ORANGES. Get it?

"Turn on, tune in and take over!" (This is Leary's later version, when he became more active, than passive, after his CIA dealings.)

( \_/ ) I AM THE WHITE RABBIT FROM ALICE IN WONDERLAND.
( ) GRACE SLICK FROM THE JEFFERSON AIRPLANE SANG
(> < ) ABOUT ME. REMEMBER NOW: FEED YOUR HEAD!

 

KEN KESEY's WEBSITE: www.intrepidtrips.com
ZANE KESEY's WEBSITE: www.key-z.com
TIMOTHY LEARY's WEBSITE: www.leary.com

I never met Kesey or Leary, but one of my cousins told me about a relative of ours (out on the East coast) that knew Leary. When Ken Kesey was still living, I bought the video entitled: INTREPID TRAVELLER and his MERRY BAND OF PRANKSTERS LOOK FOR A KOOL PLACE EPISODE ONE from www.intrepidtrips.com. The plain, white, cardboard video box was dipped into a vat of multi-colored paint swirls, to create a "handmade" PSYCHEDELIC -patterned look (each box psychedelic paint design is unique). Custom labels are glued on, then personally signed by Ken Kesey and Ken Babbs. I saw a CNN news clip about Ken Kesey and it showed how he made these psychedelic video boxes. I thought, "Cool, I'll order one!"

Timothy Leary (being Roman Catholic, originally) is supposedly the Godfather to Winona Ryder and Uma Thurman.

"Turn on, tune in and take over!" (This is Leary's later version, when he became more active, than passive, after his CIA dealings.)

"BUNNY'S" true identity:

( \_/ ) I AM THE WHITE RABBIT FROM ALICE IN WONDERLAND.
( ) GRACE SLICK FROM THE JEFFERSON AIRPLANE SANG
(> < ) ABOUT ME. REMEMBER NOW: FEED YOUR HEAD!

 

Here is some more intrigue to add to the Kesey vs. Leary debate:

KEN BABBS (of The Merry Pranksters and a good friend of KEN KESEY):

"Suddenly, Babbs drifts off into an aside. "Have you ever heard of the Aquarian Conspiracy?" he asks. "It's something that I think comes from England. According to the Aquarian Conspiracy, all this stuff that happened with acid started in England to bring about the downfall of the American Government so we would become once again an English Colony. Well, something like that. They're still pissed off at us."

"So, this is conspiracy. One of the things of the conspiracy is that we were going all over the country and turning everybody on. It couldn't be further from the truth because we never passed out acid to anybody. It was strictly a personal thing. In those days it was legal. Where it came from, I don't know. We didn't have access to that kind of stuff. We'd got stuff once in awhile and go turn on ourselves." Of the Tests, in particular, he says, "It's not like we didn't know people were taking acid. We weren't the supplier, though. The raison d'etre of the Acid Tests was not to pass out acid and get people high, that was just something that people did."

Source: LA WEEKLY features DEC. 31, 2004-JAN. 6, 2005/The Day Glo Effect-Exhuming Ken Kesey and Further 40 years after the Acid Tests, by Michael Hoinski. LINK: www.laweekly.com/ink/05/06features-hoinski.php

Do we need a second American Revolution to declare our true FREEEDOM from England? The Vatican? New York City? The UN? Britain is owned by the Vatican? New York City is the capital of the world? The UN is the World Government? Are we still an English colony? Decide for yourself. Consult:
Factoids?* This will blow your mind *Caveat Redemptor - verify for yourself
WEBSITES: http://illuminati-news.com/factoids.htm (Posted by Wes Penre)
or: http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/03/282281.shtml author: Dire Wolf (both the same article).

THE ACID TESTS
Reverend Paul Sawyer of the Unitarian Universalist Church (on Haskell Avenue) in North Hills, CA (in February of 1966), allowed the Pranksters to use his church to stage their first L.A. Acid Test.

WAVY GRAVY - The psychedelic clown of WOODSTOCK:

The Pranksters went on to throw Tests throughout Los Angeles in 1966. The most notorious was at Youth Opportunities Center in Watts on Abraham Lincoln's birthday - only months after the Watts riots. Reached by phone at "hippie Hyannisport," the communal house in Berkeley where he lives, Wavy Gravy of the Hog Farmers, a collective assembled to quell heads having bad trips, recalled that night. "The electric Kool-Aid was coined by me the night of the Watts Acid Test. Although [wolf] did maintain that I put the acid in the Kool-Aid at Watts - and I still have mothers hit me over the head with umbrellas for that one - I didnt. In fact, I spent a good part of the evening saying the Kool-Aid on the right is for the children and the Kool-Aid on the left is the electric Kool-Aid. Get it? Nudge, nudge. My big falling out with the Pranksters is that I didn't think people should take LSD unless they knew they were taking it."

"Wavy's eagerness to warn Test participants of the Kool-Aid's contents stems from an incident involving the Who Cares Girl, the nickname for a freak-out at Watts who required heaps of love and affection to mollify."

Source: The LA WEEKLY article, as above.

WAVY GRAVY's WEBSITES: www.wavygravy.net and www.campwinnarainbow.org/ (A summer camp for children and teens. "...join our circus in beautiful Mendocino County, in Northern California." Only regular Kool-Aid here!)

WAVY GRAVY - "The clown prince of the counterculture." - High Times

NOBODY FOR PRESIDENT IN '76 - WAVY GRAVY

The Merry Pranksters and Wavy Gravy were more responsible, than we gave them credit for!

"Golly Mr. Kesey, This Sure is Some Swell Kool-Ade!"

Peace out. Trip out.

( \__/ ))) BUNNY: I shouldn't have drunk Kesey's Kool-Aid!
( O ))) I'm tripping!!! I'm "electric"!!!
( .o )))
( > < )))

 

that was some great information cosmic I basically fall under the same category as you with my desicion, well i didnt know much of the spy buisiness and all that

 

Leary was more appealing as a politician and not a philosopher or religous leader. His charisma was for the legions of kids but as far as a guide for the psychedelic movement, it would have been better to leave that to the Chief Boo Hoo Art Kleps, founder of the Original Kleptonian Neo-American Church(http://www.okneoac.com