Legalizing Psychedelics : A Fool's Logic

I wonder how it feels to a cop when they get busted. What could be worse than failing so spectacularly at your job?

 

Perhaps the theory should be that society makes us mentally ill by default- therefore the option should open to all to utilize psychedelics as a treatment.

 

I would buy LSD from Sandoz in a heartbeat over a hippie dreadhead. And I would pay more. The industrial revolution provides us with manufacturing excellence, if we only choose to take it.

If you want to privately do that with your supply of LSD then that is your choice, but I don't think the government should be in the business of selling "sacraments" to citizens. This is not a point against the spiritual use of LSD, which I wholeheartedly advocate from personal experience. This is a point about what cookie jars the government's fingers are in.

 

^They would be selling sacraments regardless, they would be selling sacraments marketed as "medicine."

 

No, the government does NOT need to be doing it.... at least, not the current US government.

Guerilla, the license idea is one that I've had and discussed with friends, it's a good idea. It's very flexible and could be applied to all sorts of drugs and situations, with different classes of license, etc....

Although for things without a heavy potential for death or addiction, I would want it to be easy to get, but rather hard for harder stuff.

 

^ Yah it seems there would need to be many stipulations to limit things like polydrug use and easy access to drugs with a higher abuse potential. Some would still bitch probably for the sake of bitching but sacrificing doing a nexus flip for getting pure, precisely dosed LSD is a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

Having it sold like alcohol is begging for serious problems, as we've already seen the problems with smoking blends and bath salts, then as I mentioned polydrug use which we've seen with mushrooms and alcohol in amsterdam tends to cause a significant percentage of deaths and problems from drugs.

 

Well yes, on one hand....

On the other, this brings us back to my little control problem, where there ain't no one telling me how to use my brain.

I'm not sure about limiting use at all, but just having retailers card to see that you can buy that class of drug.

But the whole spice thing can't be equated to this, because they're not being sold AS drugs. And people do stupid things with ILLEGAL drugs, they drink on psyches and shit all the time. If the only difference was drugs where legal, the same people would do drugs, it's not like you change your mind because they're legal or illegal. Lots of people wouldn't drink alcohol or smoke pot, saying that they don't need chemicals to be happy, lots of people wouldn't trip, I wouldn't do opiates or speed. We set our limits because of us and our logic, not because of the law. As we've seen in many places, use would probably drop in the long run, because as fascinating as psychedelics are to some, most of the population isn't interested. If they where, more would do them now, pure and simple. And many who are interested now would stop being once it was no longer a mystery.



Fuck it, I think it should just all be legal

 

The spice thing is perfectly equatable with this as only in the headshop are they sold as incesnse, everywhere else people knows them as a pot substitute, or bath salts as a cocaine substitute or 'molly' haha!

At what point do you think there should be regulation of chemicals that alter the mind? Would losing your own son in an overdose be enough? How bout getting in a car accident with someone on a mix of Acid, speed and Xanax? By your logic why should an age limit even exist?

 

Agreed, they know not what they prohibit.

 

No, there should not be an age limit. You should have to be the age of majority (18) to use them on your own, but like with alcohol, parents direct supervision should make it acceptable below that. And the age of majority should be the age of majority, I recently got an MIC. I'm not a fucking minor, I'm an adult citizen of the united states of america. If I can be charged with an adult crime, it should not be possible to charge me with underage consumption, this bullshit does NOT make rational sense. Also, there should be some drugs that a parent can not give a minor, generally those that are likely to cause addiction, ie. tobacco(outside religious/ceremonial context) opiates, that sort of shit.

Losing my son to an OD would make me a horrible parent. It would not mean that the government should have laws regarding drugs. As we know, many many OD's happen because of drug laws which cause impure drugs of unknown potency. My son would not be more likely to take drugs because of legal drugs, therefore he'd be more likely to get into trouble with illegal and thus unknown drugs.

I could be hit by a driver on acid, speed and xanax right now, as it is. As many studies and full on examples of entire countries like the netherlands or portugal show, legalization or decriminalization does NOT make people take more drugs, once the initial novelty of true freedom wears off. If anything, legalization lets you properly educate. When all you have are scare tactics, you have no impact, the day someone smokes a joint and feels great with no side effects is the day all your scare tactics and indoctrination went out the window, most people don't do independent research to the extent that you or I would before taking drugs, and see drugs as drugs, period.

All the things you mentioned would be horrible, and legalization would help prevent them from happening as much, as well as prevent THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of needless deaths and ruined lives per year due to drug prohibition, both at the hands of law enforcement and drug runners.

Mimic drugs sold as other things are not the same thing, they're mislabeled with NO safety info, because they don't even accept that they're drugs because of the batshit insane laws. There's no regulation to keep them in the hands of adults, or responsible adults (such as the license we discussed) there's NOTHING. They're just mystery powders and leaves, you don't even know WHAT drug you have for certain, or that it's the only drug you're getting.

stop watching bill-o

We need better parenting, including free parenting classes for anyone interested, we need proper drug education (taking drugs CAN be risky, people need to understand the real risks) and we DO need DWI laws, and that sort of thing. (I am, however, against PI laws unless someone's causing a risk to other people or causing an epic disturbance. That's when the police should protect and serve you, and take you home and wish you a nice evening)

Until drugs are legal, we can't even begin to rationally examine them and classify/control them.

My dealer does not card, in fact I never met one that wouldn't sell to me because of my age, and I started smoking pot when I was 14. I always had an easier time finding weed than alcohol or tobacco when I was underage, and that should tell you something.

 

The increase in accidents from intoxicated drivers is not a scare tactic, its well documented as is the case with overdoses from poly drug use.

Why can't we lower the majority to like Age 10 its just as arbitrary a number as 18. Why can't 10 years old decide what they want to dose on while the parents are at work and Dora is on?

 

I think physical maturity of the brain, as well as adequate time to become independent in your society, ought to be taken into account when deciding things like an age limit. I think 10 is much too young.

I would like to see more education regarding drug use. Many people are already polydrug abusers. Doctors trust people not to OD on pills they prescribe when they take them with alcohol.

 

18 is a pretty carefully chosen age. It's not when you stop maturing, it's when most people are sentient enough to REALLY be responsible for their own actions, wellbeing, etc.

Yes, intoxicated drivers cause problems. Let's fight that, DWI's should be enforced. Anyone sufficently lacking in mental or physical faculties should NOT be on the road.

If we where to raise the age of majority to 19, I might not think it's a good idea, but as long as it's the same accross the board, I wouldn't say too much. The same would go with lowering it to 17. But with my own experience and what I've seen of others, 18 is a very good choice for that age.

Look at europe. Alcohol is commonplace, not a mystery that you have to learn about in a dark alley with sketchy people. As such, people are generally more responsible with it.

Again, the laws don't change a damn thing, people will take what they'll take, you, I, and this forum in general are excellent examples of this. All laws do is hurt them MORE.

Laws that punish you for allegedly hurting yourself are not legitimate, they are tyrannical.

 

Is everyone's brain fully mature at 18? I'd probably trust some 10 year olds to use drugs more responsibly than some of the teens and 20 somethings I've met.

Yes doctors do trust people not to od with warnings on the box and that still happens, quite frequently with some prescription drugs, so imagine what that would be like if there is widespread availability.

I think, I should say more that I wish that psychedelics drugs could be integrated in a logical, reasonable manner into society at large with preventative measures taken and caution but perhaps that's just a wish and being relegated to medicine would be the best course for integration into mainstream society, I'm not sure how much that removes the criminal element though.

 

It doesn't remove the criminal element. Look at the horrible brutal things that happen because of OC's. Many pharmacies don't stock it, or started hiring armed guards JUST to protect it and their employees and customers when shit started going down with it.

Of course if you legalize all drugs, there will be crazyness for a while. It's got to happen.

The problem is the whole CULTURE of prohibition. To change it, and to change peoples views on drugs, first we must pull our heads out of our asses about drugs.

You can't breed a responsible culture when it's all about what you can get away with. It sidesteps the real issue, DRUGS, and makes it LEGAL.

It's a fundamental cultural problem. A problem bread of stiff necked fools afraid of other people feeling better than they do.

Drugs can and must be integrated into society, as you said. The first step is to stop arresting people for using them. Only over time can a responsible culture be nurtured into existence, but what we're doing now gets steadily worse, there's nothing to win and everything to lose.

Also, no, not everyone is full grown at 18, that's why it's the age of MAJORITY. You can't hurt everyone because of a few fuckwads., and 18 is a good average. Some ten year olds ARE more responsible, but it would hurt more than help to lower the age to 10, just as it would hurt to move it to 21.

 

LOL you should come spend a Saturday night in pretty much ANY town in England! Responsible aint the word! Under age drinking is still done in parks, back aleys etc, and the rates of young people drinking to excess (often dangerous amounts) is rising...

Not sure I would like it if half of these muppets got hold of some incredibly powerful trippy drugs myself! How ever it would make my life easier if I could pop down to the lcal shop and buy an 1/8th of bud and a few tabs of sid he he

Mainland Euroe, on the whole, seem to have a more responsble out look on it all though...

 

England is becoming a hardcore nanny state. When you take peoples rights, they can't handle their rights. Everyone knows ENGLAND has this problem, I said EUROPE. They might be a hop skip and a jump away, but they ain't europe.

We have hardcore prohibition and no acceptance of underaged drinking here, and the same thing happens. It would appear that it's going to happen either way, and you might as well address it instead of turn up your nose and prosecute them for doing what people naturally do.

Europe "progressing" and letting in the middle east while trying to follow americas lead (while america bullies them to, of course) is causing serious problems, watch recent laws and trends and europe is a great example of drug/alcohol laws/prohibition causing the problem, not the other way around.

America RAN on drugs from the start, and no one even thought them worthy of mention, from pot to speed. they caused problems, and they where addressed. then the "my morals, your throat" mentality took over in the early 20th century, and everything went to hell.

Bottom line is if it's a free country, you may do what you please, so long as you harm no one else. The government is there to protect you from OTHER people hurting you, not from YOU hurting you. If some speedfreak's endangering people, by all fucking means, deal with him. But the speed isn't what he was doing wrong, it's the endangering people. Intoxication should not be an excuse for anything, it should simply be irellivent. If you do something, you did it, and that's the point.

 

I will agree with you on the nanny state part! :devil: God I get pissed off living here at times! HOWWEVER, England IS part of Europe, for better or worse, and ironically a lot of the lame ass laws that we have to deal with are via the EU! Go figure... The EU wants to regulate and standardise everything, which has a knock on effect to us. Most of the continent is still pretty intollerant of drugs as well, bar the countries that you have already mentioned...

But I agree on the whole, drugs should be legalised, regulated, and the population should be educated and not frightened / misinformed with scare tactics.

 

Would rep you, but I've given out too much in the last 24 hours, or so I'm told.

One more thing about the age of majority: your brain keeps growing your WHOLE LIFE, why don't we make you wait till you're dead to get a drivers license, or drink, or anything? why don't we just wear diapers our whole lives?

Things change the whole time, that does not mean you're not a sufficently mature adult at 18. If you can't handle most of your stuff when you're 18, well shit, stick around the house, it just means you can make choices for yourself, you still may need your parents help, I know I do. On the other hand, if you're ready to fly at 16 and your parents agree, go for it.

18 is just a number, but again, it's a carefully chosen number, when the weight of the world really is becoming obvious, or rather, has for a few years, but is really taking effect. I think it's a good number.

If someone has problems at 18, it's very likely because their parents tried to let their television and the DEA raise their child, instead of instilling those values that keep them from ODing or being dysfunctional themselves. The DEA doesn't need to teach my kid not to OD, I need to. Drake and josh doesn't need to parody dysfunctional familys for my kid, I need to show them a functional one.

 

Thanks :bobby: Its a complicated issue, shame the idiots have to make it so hard for anyone sensible who wants to have some fun and explore their mind huh?