Libertarian: Pro gun Hippy

And there's a reason I didn't.

To me the global warming VS climate change debate is somewhat separate issue for some people when talking about fossil fuels.

It was a can of worms that I didn't think appropriate to bring up specifically for one pipeline project.

Now if you want to make a new thread discussing and debating whether mankind has speed up the natural warming process by burning fossil fuels, OR if mankind has no impact in a process that's completely Earth driven natural, I'd be happy to pitch in.

The same goes for greener car technology discussion.

If you want to discuss energy topics your more than welcome to post in my US energy policy thread.

 

Got a link to that?

 

Why do you call bullshit about hippies being armed. This is what the Sheriff said himself. If you weren't there, how can you even have an opinion. Have you read David Talbot's Book, Season Of The Witch. Do some research if you're going to comment.

I saw plenty of guns while I was there from 66 to 77'. But don't take my word for it. Believe what ever you want, it doesn't change anything. The Haight was fully armed.

Have a nice day

 

It's on the main Politics thread page of these forums.

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=474721&f=36

 

As people say it depends how you define ‘hippie’

In political terms here is a definition -

They possess a core belief set revolving around the values of peace and love as being essential in an increasingly globalized society, and they are oftentimes associated with non-violent anti-governmental groups.

The movement, then and now, is considered a sub-culture by sociologists that associates itself with the left in all its political opinions. The conservative right often berates and abuses the opinions of people who associate themselves with the hippie movement and/or lifestyle, as the consider it dangerous and degenerative to a society to favor liberalism to such an extent.

*

A few people have called the hippie philosophy ‘utopian socialism’ with strong leanings toward environmentalism.

To me the fear/threat mentality behind the desire to carry a gun for protection would not seem to fit in with a mentality that wishes for harmony, understanding and the peaceful resolution of problems.

 

Bal, I'm not sure anyone is talking about carrying.

From what I've read, The Grateful Dead were all gun enthusiasts. Their album American Beauty was originally going to have a back cover photo of them all toting pistols, but they eventually decided on something else. Mickey Hart had a gun range on his land that they would all frequent.

 

Well, OK, maybe I'm wrong about guns in the Haight, but I've never heard that before.

 

Who do you think protected all the peace loving hippies, we all wanted peace. Nobody wanted war, none of us wanted to kill just for the 'sport'.

We were living in the middle of a racial war, hate groups, junkies, robbers, rapists, an over zealous LE, corrupt police force. A total eclipse of light in the shadows of negative emotion.

Our houses were a safe haven from the darkness, we lent shelter and sustenance for body mind and spirit. We armed ourselves against deadly intrusion. We held our bill of right and our constitution as our protection from the government taking over our lives.

We were the ones that stayed to protect the home front while all our boys were drafted into the 'service' to fight someone else's war. The war of the elite against the people of the world.

We stood beside MLK as he marched for peace and equality, we rallied with the 'old' black panther party to restore the neighborhoods and keep the streets clean of violence and hate. Yes we were armed.

The element we were fighting had guns, and everyone knows you don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

The point is: We exercised our constitutional 2nd amendment right to bare arms. We used our first amendment right to freedom of speech and the right to peaceful assembly. We also stood our ground for our 5th amendment, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We involved ourselves in our own lives and we fought and many died protecting our basic fundamentals as civilized human beings.

The media did not show the real action, the real 'movement'. They dipicted us all passive and all love, peace and hippie beads. They show the Love-Ins, the Human Be-ins. They showed the Celebration Of Life gatherings.

They did not show our 'security' on the perimeter or the security mingling in the crowd of thousands of people enjoying life. They did not show our security taking instigators out of the events. They did show the LE beating people with clubs and macing them, but that was ok bc they had guns and badges. Our Badge IS The Constitution which we protected with our guns.

 

Thanks once again Mary for giving some insight from back in the day. I feel and know I am getting my info straight from the source from you, and not the over-zealous media.

 

Well meagain...that all depends on your definition. say if we were invaded by terrorists and they overthrew the american government by means of violence.....I would say then my guns would protect my freedoms from shiad or however you spell it, law

 

look up the muslim brotherhood....

 

I find it highly unlikely, but still like being prepared. One can not imagine oh these things could never happen...thats what people said about 9/11, guess what it did happen. We have to be prepared

 

This fits in exactly with my theory –

My theory is that there is a general attitude among many Americans that accepts threat of violence, intimidation and suppression as legitimate means of societal control and this mindset gets in the way of them actually working toward solutions to their social and political problems.

This is because that attitude colours the way they think about and view the world from personal interaction to how they see other countries.
They can come to see the world as threatening, they can feel intimidated and fear that they are or could be the victim of criminal or political suppression.

This attitude can lead to a near paranoid outlook were everything and everyone is seen as a potential threat that is just waiting to attack or repress them. This taints the way they see the government, how criminality can be dealt with, how they see their fellow citizens, differing social classes, differing ethnic groups, and even differing political philosophies or ideas.

Within the framework of such a worldview guns seem attractive as a means of ‘equalising’ the individual against what they perceive as threats, it makes them feel that they are also ‘powerful’ and intimidating and that they too, if needs be, can deal with, in other words suppress the threatening.

The problem is that such attitudes can build up an irrational barrier between reality and myth, between what they see as prudent and sensible and what actually is prudent and sensible.


The US has the best equipped military forces in the world and has the largest number of nuclear warheads.

But there seem to be some Americans that honestly believe they are going to be invaded by ‘terrorists’ who could actually overthrow the US government? How’s that for an irrational barrier between reality and myth.

 

this [fear/intimidation]mindset gets in the way of them actually working toward solutions to their social and political problems.

Meagain put it well - While guns may protect your person they don't protect your freedoms and liberties. Education, moral fiber, mutual respect for all humans, just laws, social and spiritual evolution, and good government do.

But the mentality I’m talking about often seems to work against this – instead of mutual respect for others it seems to promote fear of others, rather than work together they often seem to promote a individualistic ‘I’m all right jack’ attitude, fearing government it calls for ‘small’ government rather than seek good governance and it seems to wish to undermine social and economic harmony through tax cuts that would only increase the power of a few.

As I’ve said it depends on your definition of ‘hippie’ I’m sure there were the very individualistic libertarian ones and the more altruistic socialist types (and every shade between) but I repeat to me the fear/threat mentality that seems to be behind the desire to carry a gun for protection would not seem to fit in with a mentality that wishes for harmony, understanding and the peaceful resolution of problems.

 

We hunt for our food, needs guns. nuff said

 

Then they can say, "you don't need an assault rifle to hunt"

 

Our current military is all dependent on digital technology, an emp and they would be screwed, anything is possible

Hmmm I seem to remember someone else had the best military in the world...they were very well equipped...the phrase the sun never sets on the british empire comes to mind..... Oh yeah England.

England was the best military in the world in the 1700's and yet somehow an insurrection happened in America and now we are number one. I would say it is foolish it could never happen to us. Now I believe that America, and England , have the best military in the world. All the reasons above are reasons I think it is "HIGHLY unlikely" but still it could happen. Its called a black swan event.

However even if this weren't to ever happen, the constitution is very clear we have a right to bear arms, and it is unlawful try and disarm us

 

Well in that case.. humm.. let me say this to Meagain and to you Hillbilly.. 1776.

Meagain, I do understand that if it were a Perfect World, no one would need a weapon. But my dearest, it ain't no perfect world There are no "perfect' people. There are only human beings and we are far from perfect, even the most devout of us. Even MLK had his shortcomings.

We need our guns more than ever now. Our government is more corrupt/dangerous then ever before.

It will take another 500 yrs to bring every country up to a level of consciousness of evolution. Yes through education and community. But I am afraid that our world 'leaders' will not allow that to happen right now.

They don't want ppl educated. You can't 'run' Educated Slaves. So they dumb us down with fluorides and other chemicals in our food, water and air. They keep the ppl in poverty and on hand outs so the ppl will depend only on them. Slaves.

I will keep my arms. I will hold fast to our liberties and what little freedom we have left. And when the Polar Bears are tame and the Lion lays down with the Lamb, I will then relinquish my weapons.