Mac

You seem well versed in programs useful in high school shop.

Music or video editing? Rendering or animation?

As for scientific software, How about mathematica? maxima? IRAF? matlab?

*edit* that's all I had off the top of my head. A quick search returned apple's own page, listing some of the premier scientific software available for mac.

http://www.apple.com/science/software/

And now it's bedtime.:coffee:

 

I believe they use Solidworks and I helped set-up and install Mechanical Desktop and Inventor on a shit load of workstations for Boeing as well as McDonnell Douglas back in the '90's when I was working for a company that was a reseller for Autodesk and Adobe. So I guess they were a bunch of retards for using PC's to design the space shuttle and defense systems.

Time and again, Adobe on Macs, everything else on PC.
Historically Adobe has been the only major software developer that mainly supported the Mac

Roor is partially correct in all he has said, as long as you stick to white papers, textbook's and advertising hype. In the real world Macs seriously lag in productivity applications, always have.
Same with Roor's experience, lots of book knowledge, very little "real world" knowledge.
But all of us that have posted in this thread who have actually used these systems/software in real life, networked, business environments for 20-30 years or more don't know shit from shinola about it, do we.

 

Uhhmm, Roor you do realize they use those programs in high school classes because THAT'S WHAT IS USED IN THE BUSINESS WORLD, don't you.

I have worked with hundreds of architects, designers, draftsmen, etc.
Guess what they use, all the programs meagain listed, Surprise!!

 

I'm partially correct because I can read the white papers, and list scientific programs that don't even exist for windows, or that are vastly less efficient, and that only a fool would use for anything serious? I didn't go reading about those, I helped set up the mac/linux labs to run them in university CS environments, yes, high school environments, etc. I don't know who would even care to read about those.

You seem to have come to the stage 1-3 decades late to have sold any CAD used on the space shuttle, sorry..... And after the cold war, I'm not so sure about defense anything either. Of COURSE they have CAD, but that doesn't have anything to do with your lofty claims about it.

You talk about productivity applications.... which usually means office applications. This is not the case, and I won't even breach that one.... But assuming you mean more serious things, refer to the above.

I didn't say windows is useless. Just that it's a behemoth of a poorly built operating system that's only useful because everyone has it, making it the most profitable thing to write software for.

And hey, XP is a genuinely good OS, after being around a decade. 95 was a nice OS too.

 

Whatever, I know what I saw and from talking to engineers on the project. What do you think, they just slapped a shuttle together and never did any revisions or updates to the design.
As far as defense work at McDonnel Douglas, you are rather naive after all, aren't you?
I wasn't making any lofty claims about CAD? just that a lot more of ALL industries use PC's than MACs and for good reason.
But fuck-it, what do I know, all I did was build, set-up and configure the systems, while you were busy sucking on your mama's tit, so how dare I even begin to question anything you have to say.

I guess you are just so much more infinitely experienced and intelligent than the rest of us poor peons that we should be honored that you would grace us with all 20 of your years of experience and accumulated knowledge.

Bottom line, people will buy what suits their needs, whether that be a MAC or a PC (even though from a hardware standpoint they are the fucking same now) and You have no fucking idea what your talking about when it comes to the early use and evolution of computers in the real working world, plain and simple. All you can go by is what you can Google, while some of us in this forum ACTUALLY did the shit you can only read about.
That's my point.
Pull your arrogant head out, would ya?

 

So, again, your main argument is that you're older than me. Clap clap clap, you can read the age I volunteered on a forum, and you're nothing close to pretentious about it, either:2thumbsup:

You seem to desperately need to be part of this "we", the enlightened PC using elite. Give up, you and relaxx are aggressive, doesn't make you part of the greater majority who we can totally trust to be telling the truth about single-handedly setting up the entire aeronautics and space sectors computer systems, and further, to know without a doubt that PC's are ALL that these industries utilize.

A lot of industries use PC's for plenty of things, and you obviously have no concept of who uses a mac, or what they use it for, because you..... oh yeah, set up PC's!

Also, what the fuck is a "MAC"? Is you not knowing what the thing's called supposed to show us how qualified you are to discount them?

But don't mind me, my points are all quickly nullified by ignoring my entire post, except for the part after "Age:". And maybe talking about "us" special PC users a bit, for good self-reaffirming measure. And maybe an attempted personal jab or two.

 

Sorry to interrupt the Mac Vs. Pc debate.

I was recently given an old iBook G4, and have so far found it very easy to use and intuitive. However, now that I'm having an issue trying to figure out how to fix something.. it's becoming extremely frustrating.

I'm not even going to pretend I'm at all tech savvy, but if I had an issue with my old laptop, I could easily google and find a solution. I have been googling and not finding much for my Mac.. Are Macs not easily fixed, or is it just that there isn't as much Mac information out there?

I still like it a lot though.. no bashing.

 

You have to take it to an Apple store and ask a GENIUS at the GENIUS BAR. The GENIUS will touch some psychedelic bubbles and offer you store credit. Don't you watch South Park? South Park has all the answers to life's questions.

 

Here is why Apple failed in the 80's.. Apple IIe cost $1200... while IBM and Commadore systems cost around $600...

Today.. An air will run you $1000... while you can get a PC laptop for as low as $400... The difference is today.. people throw their cash around like its nothing and will jump at the newest iCrap... still Apple only has like 23% of total sales a year for computers..

 

Sorry, Mac haters, looks like Mac is whupping PCs ass:

 

Could you please post a link to the entire article.
In the mean time I found this. As I thought you were rather selective on what you quoted.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/10/13/gartner-mac-grew-20-times-faster-than-the-pc-market-in-q3/

Apple still is well over 10% less in market share than HP and Dell. Apple isn't whupping anything. LOL
You would want us to think that the whole world is buying Apple now, that's just not the case at all.

If Joe sells widgets and has sales of 2 one year and then sales of six the next, sure that's awesome, he tripled his sales!
But Harry sells fidgets in direct competition to Joe, but he sold 800,000 last year, and only 400,000 this year, looks bad because sales dropped 50%, but he still sold a whole lot more than Joe.
But you would tell us Joe is kicking Harry's ass in sales based on the percentage of growth, but that is a misleading figure, isn't it.

This article also pretty much states that even though Apple sales are growing, they are still far behind the top PC manufactures.
http://www.businessweek.com/technol...ple_places_fourth_in_us_pc_market_for_q3.html

One problem with those numbers is they are only considering the name brand sellers. I promise you there are a shit ton of white box systems and home built systems sold that if combined with the name brands would really put a MUCH wider gap between Apple and PC's. I've built every computer I have ever owned for the last 20 years, excluding laptops, like many multiple thousands of others. Why not add in figures from companies like Newegg.com or Tiger direct and tally motherboard and cpu sales into it. Bet you would get a completely different picture. Hell, the gamer market alone would most likely blow Apple out of the water for sales of components/home built PC's. But I forget, Apple products are proprietary and most Apple aficionados don't have a clue how a computer works, let alone build one from scratch. So I can understand how that entire market segment wouldn't even occur to you.

Also please do realize that the upsurge in sales for Apple computers in recent years is in large part because they are now Intel x86 architecture and by virtue of that allows a wider application base to be used on the Apple. Yeah I know, unix/linux and different OS and all that crap, but when applications are developed on x86 architecture hardware to begin with, it makes it a helluva lot easier to compile it for another OS.

 

Noxiousgas, about your last paragraph:

Umm no. it is not, and does not. If you're writing serious applications for mac, you're using their version of the GNU compiler, with coca. At first, applications were compiled "universal", and now that's phased out. If you're not writing machine language, it's exactly the same as it always was. The strength here is every UNIX/linux/solaris/whatever app EVER can be compiled from source on mac, as well as every mac app for a very long time.

You REALLY think barebones/homebuilt PC's come close to those sales trends? We get it, you're into homebuilt PC's, but while there's plenty, trying to use them to explain why apple's not really gaining ground is pretty retarded sounding. Nobody who would switch anyway is building anything, or else they already have a freaking mac or ten, like myself.

 

Yup, I'm into home built PC's because I can put together a system that would leave your top o' the line Apple system in the dust for a fraction of the cost.

Actually not recognizing that segment of the market is retarded.
As I said, the market for gaming systems alone is in the millions of units and a very large percentage of those are self built.

Actually it would seem that the segment comprised of those who do build their own and the "shop down the street" type resellers aren't even included in the figures. Big error in my opinion. Hell I know of one person who alone has sold well over 100,000 "white box" systems in the 15 years I've known him. That's just one guy. Now figure in how many systems those types of shops sell combined worldwide and you have a rather significant share of the market.

What about companies like Alienware, there are thousands of them, and not a single one seems to be selling Apple products for high end gaming systems.
I just think you are not aware of that segment because you were raised on Apple, most likely your school used them because Apple donated a shit ton of computers to school systems all around as another means of advertising. Start 'em young on Apple and they are much more likely to purchase one for home use. Brilliant marketing ploy for sure.

Your lack of comprehension of these things is rather surprising to say the least.

 

I am using one of the two computers sitting next to me. I built both of them. I'm currently running ubuntu 10, my daily system. I dual boot XP. I have NO intention in buying a new mac any time soon, if ever again.

Your lack of comprehension of this rather suprising, to say the least.

And what about alienware? Do you know who owns alienware? Guess you missed this, back in 06'. Owned in FULL.

Also, you should hit up ocn some time. People spend many multiples of what a standard top of the line mac costs on fucking powder coating and glittery cable ties, custom cases, custom cnc waterblocks, the newest CPU and 4 graphics cards on the market every time there's a release, only to sell it after a month (and getting the benchmarks screen shotted, which is all they cared about anyway) so that their car doesn't get repossessed(again)-so yeah, that's real cool that you've got access to your buddies burnt out shit for cheap(er), so that you can throw it in a rosewill case and feel like an uber computer building geek. Can we see specs here? maybe newegg links, so we can see what it would cost normal people, without friends who will keep you in computer parts for cheap?

And while we're talking about your cheap PC's, maybe you can show us a photo of your leet opty 165 rig, with that whole gig of DDR your buddy threw in?

 

So what??
I keep talking hardware and you always revert to software.

Didn't miss anything, owned by DELL, old news.
You obviously completely missed the point of the reference.

Again, all old news to me, but wait a second, so those dickheads that spend stupid amounts of money in pissing contest's are buying and building what again.... oh yeah, PC's, not Macs!!!
Thanks for helping to illustrate my point.

Buddy's burnt out shit??? Where the fuck you getting that idea from?
The system I am currently using is a couple of years old now, but cost me under $750 dollars to slap together. Not bleeding edge by any means, but dollar for dollar, better than if I spent the same on an Apple product. Nicest thing is I got to choose what components went into it, and get the best cost/performance ratio that was within my budget.

QuadCore Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300, 3000 MHz (7.5 x 400) with a Zalman heatsink, don't remember the model #, but it's one of the all copper double donut looking ones.
Gigabyte GA-EP43-UD3L (2 PCI, 4 PCI-E x1, 1 PCI-E x16, 4 DDR2 DIMM, Audio, Gigabit LAN)
Motherboard Chipset Intel Eaglelake P43
System Memory 8192 MB (DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM) (actually it's 1066mhz speed as shown in the model #, it just reports 800mhz)
OCZ Gold XTC OCZ2G10662G 2 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM (x4)
Video Adapter NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT (1024 MB)
Monitor HYUNDAI IT 22 Wide Digital (got it on sale for $99)
Audio Adapter Creative Audigy 2 Platinum (SB0240) Sound Card
Disk Drive WDC WD1001FALS-00E8B0 (931 GB, IDE) Caviar Black
Disk Drive WDC WD7501AALS-32J7B0 (698 GB, IDE) Caviar Black
Optical Drive TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-S223F DVD burner

Like I said, not bleeding edge and the sound card is definitely older from previous build and video is beginning to get a little aged, but it all still does what I want it too. (I'll see about the video after TES:Skyrim comes out, then it may be time for an upgrade )

I doubt I would have been able to purchase a comparable Apple machine for the same $$$. Plus I can upgrade individual components without having to purchase an entire new system, has Apple come around to letting you do that yet?
And that is what this thread is about after all, isn't it.

And the case is an old case, but I don't really give fuck about how it looks on the outside, it's what's inside that's important. So you can loose any assumptions that I'm one of those idiots that has to have the fastest, flashing, beeping, neon lighted rigs. I just shop for the best bang for my buck, and that is by going PC, not Mac.

Bottom line, any comparisons between Macs and PC's market shares that doesn't also take into account the many millions of non-name brand PC's out there is inaccurate, and your intelligent enough to know that.

So Roor, whats under your hood?

 

This is interesting, I was under the impression that only spoiled rich douchebags had macs.

I'm running my high school rig, E2140@3.2ghz (100%oc) on stock air, 2gb patriot ddr2 800, turtle beach card jacked out of an old dell, BFG 7950GT OC, (just died, looking for a new one-thing had a SHIT heatsink, half as big as the one on my old 7600GT, but that card no longer exists either, so....) On an asus P5K-E, old 500gb seagate, standard everything burning dvd optical, PCP&C silencer 750W. I think that's about it. Free monitor, etc.

Haven't had the money for more, and it gets everything done. I'm not spoiled, like those guys with new macs or C2Q's. But it IS getting about time to go stick up a yokel "PC service" store for a video card. Maybe I'll get a nice old 8800GTX, so I can keep living in 2008.

Also, doesn't matter what model it is, if your ram's reporting 800MHz, it's clocked at 800MHz, get in yer BIOS and fix it.

Also, no, I got your exact point about alienware. They're THE only large boutique PC company, and they're STILL the only name most people even know. And they're fucking dell. How does that make a good example of little guys building PC's? That's dell, plain and simple, and I'm sure it's factored into those estimates. And I don't know why everyone assumes that none of those estimates include barebones/lil guys/homebuilds, it's not like those parts are off the radar, numbers exist, and so numbers of PC's that they've gone into exist as well.