Mass Shooting In Charleston

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/22/us/campaign-donations-linked-to-white-supremacist.html?_r=0



The Council of Conservative Citizens is a Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist organization. If you don't want to equate Neo-Nazi and White Supremacist that's fine but you would be splitting hairs at that point.

 

The SC governor called for the flag to be removed! She spoke at 4:15.

Next project: Changing the Mississippi state flag. Can you imagine how it must feel to be a black state employee there? They may as well hang a replica KKK noose in front of every post office.



It's time for all symbols of white supremacy to be removed from active government facilities.

I uderstand your feelings better than you might expect. I used to have nightmares about my grandfather beating me to death for hooking up with a black guy.

 

This loser in Charleston wanted to stir up racial violence, but he has brought about a fresh round of racial progress that is absolutely amazing to me. All the top GOP leaders in SC are getting on board! This is a rare example of America handling something well.

Wal-Mart just announced that they will stop selling items bearing any kind of image of the Confederate flag! I think it's noteworthy that this is an Arkansas-based company, with conservative management. A true bipartisan consensus seems to be building on this issue. Real progress.

 

I watched Nikki Haley's news conference yesterday, and I must say its literally the first thing she has done as governor that I applaud and agree with.

and Karen J, you are most certainly right...what this horrible little evil young man hoped to start seems to be causing the exact opposite of his intentions.

I stil haven't heard of him even having any psych drugs prescribed to him...only that he appeared to want to be known for his hate.

 

OK, real progress on the flag. Any chance for real discussion (not even progress) on others issues? You know, because flags don't exactly kill people.

 

Guns? The NRA is still controlled by gun manufacturers, so they won't allow any discussion of legal gun control, not even proposed regulations that are supported by the majority of their own members who are not on the payroll of a weapons manufacturing company. It's just a money thing. Very few gun owners think that crazy people and those previously convicted of a violent crime should be able to buy guns as quickly and easily as they can now.

But symbols can (and do) feed a toxic culture.

I'd love for some Confederate flag advocate to post here and explain just exactly what kind of nonracist heritage is supposedly honored and celebrated by the flying of that flag in public places. All those conversations seem to eventually work their way back around to white supremacy.

 

yeah, I'd love to hear what kind of "real discussion" you have in mind, since it seems you have these passive/aggressive feelings but just won't (or can't) express them:

There IS in my meager opinion (shared by others, I'm certain) "real discussion" in talking about the fact that people are coming together and exhibiting the opposite of what this sick/evil individual would have happen.

As per course, Karen J eloquently related facts (and my opinion) also about guns and the NRA.

My sons has 3 guns and a rifle. I wish I had a gun for self protection, out here in the rural area where I live.

However, I KNOW neither I nor my son would ever perpetrate nor condone such heinous actions as this young man...what he did was aim toward a racist war...there will always be evil and crazy people that will come up with reasons to act in ways that no sane person would ever expect nor fully understand.

Is that what you wanted to have a "real discussion"?

 

That would be the "Sons of Confederate Veterans" who just might be a little biased, as well as sporting a completely ridiculous name.

As near as I can tell, any real sons of confederate veterans died out sometime by the late 20th Century (giving a 70-year lifespan & the veteran siring a son at 70). They probably would do better with "Great-Great Grandsons of Confederate Veterans," meaning like me, none of them actually saw a confederate veteran.

My Great-Great Grandfather the Confederate Veteran


Born in 1844 he would have been 21 at the end of the Civil War.

Like Doogie Howser, he was a teenaged doctor (sawbones) during the war, probably learned on the job.

 

One thing I'd like for people to talk more about, especially those of us from the South, is how to go about improving the culture in backward, hole in the wall places where people are not taught to think for themselves, but to simply conform to generations of tradition. I don't know the answer. That's why I got the hell out of that culture, and will never go back.

Lynn, I'm sure you and I and Meliai could quickly list, without much effort, at least 20 places in SC and NC that are worse than Lexington, SC in terms of cultural isolation. If you live in Pageland or Bennettsville or Laurinburg or Lumberton or Williamston, you don't have easy access to urban places and activities. In fact, it's nearly impossible to visit a real city and get anything done without spending the night. You don't have a beach. You don't have mountains. You don't have a university. You don't have much of anything except family, friends, and church. If you don't fit in with those people and at least pretend to agree with them, you're screwed. No life at all.

If you become enlightened by TV and the internet and/or a real education, you'll probably move away to a metro area of at least 100,000 population, and only come back to visit relatives on major holidays. After you leave, they'll talk behind your back and say things like, "Now that she's moved to the city and hangs around all them goddamn Yankees, she acts like she's better than everybody else. She don't even talk like she used to."

The ones who stay there are the ones who don't want anything to change. But everything gets worse, as the jobs leave. How many more mass murderers are these places going to produce? Even if only the worst person in each town flips and starts shooting, that's still a small army of killers, if they all go into the city.

I wish I had a good idea for fixing this mess.

 

Just a little bit.

I'm proud to say that I once earned a lifetime ban from a Civil War online forum where some of those idiots hang out. To not get thrown out of a place like that, I'd have to be doing some really weak writing.

 

Not passive aggressive, just trying to be too cute. And, no words aren't my strong point

Agreed, I guess I had hoped that coming together could at least carry over people discussing guns and "crazy people".

I agree.

 

This is within walking distance of my house, my neighborhood is 70w/30b%.. Not sure exactly what this home is trying to represent ..

I web crawled a few the white supremacist boards and no way are they supportive of the actions of Roof ..
Roof could of done an even more cowardly deed, such as entering a school. If God intervened in anything, he allowed nine angels in prayer to call the gunman to them..

 

----------------------------------------------------------Edit.

 

I'll bite. Playing devil's advocate:

The Civil War was really about shirking the shackles put on the US by the European Central Banks. There were many, many attempts to establish a Central Bank in the US. Most of our founding fathers, the ones who weren't shills, heroically resisted these attempts, they wanted to avoid those beginnings because they wanted to avoid these endings. The end game is what we see today. The US government doesn't control the currency creation as the constitution dictates, what the US Treasury does is ask permission from the Federal Reserve to create some currency. When the FED is gracious enough to grant that request, they are rewarded by being owed back that amount, plus interest. So they loan out 1 trillion dollars, and expect back 1.5 trillion, which does not exist. Only 1 trillion exists. By 2015 they've loaned out 10 trillion and expect back 18 trillion, our current national debt, but only 10 trillion dollars exist. It cannot be paid down.

Thomas Jefferson and so many others knew this would come to fruition if a Central Bank seized control. Andrew Jackson knew it and he killed the 2nd Bank of the United States. The Confederacy wanted no part of this pyramid scheme and they tried to opt out. Perhaps some of the pride in the flag is pride in standing up to the predatory banks. The war was certainly not about slavery as many of you likely believe. It was a side issue that did end up helping the North, but the North would have loved to keep the slaves in place, if only the south would agree to take the D from the Central Bank. Lincoln's own words:



"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union"

 

"Boys, let's go take that hill, in the name of decentralized banking!"

 

It seems now that all the confederate south was ever about was enslaving blacks and the flag represents that. But that was not all the confederates stood for, it was not the sole reason they tried to segregate, and it is not what every person with a confederate flag in their garden is about by default. I understand this flag has little purpose anymore in front of government buildings etc. but to stigmatize it and the people who wave it as a whole seems kinda pointless. Like, it has become a symbol for racist americans. Now any person talking about 'southern heritage' and being proud on it is regarded as a racist?

 

Hah! This move to ban display of the "Stars and Bars" makes about as much sense as the move for PC Speech. "I'm telling you General Custer, them fellers ain't wearin, no war paint. They must be friendlies." If your way of thinking, nature is not "PC" show me your true self don't use "PC speech" to hide behind

 

It is not about political correctness infringing on private citizens' right to be a hate spewing, rebel "heritage" loving racist bigot. You can fly the stars & bars from your flagpole, paint it on top of the General Lee, anyplace you want to advertise your ignorance and backwardness.

The issue is, should it be displayed on a statehouse that represents ALL the ppl and not just the Old South "traditionalists."

Southern Heritage is U.S. Marshalls escorting little brown girls to a desegegated public school, black ppl being abused at a lunch counter, terrorists burning a "freedom bus," little girls being killed in a church bombing, marchers being attacked by the good-ol-boy sheriff and posse, 3 young college students being murdered by the sheriff - who got acquitted of the crime.

Shall I go on about Southern Heritage as represented by the Confederate Battle Flag?

 

http://www.wspa.com/story/29373361/people-march-on-ravenel-bridge-to-remember-shooting-victims

There's been a lot of love in Charleston the past week. I've always been really proud of South Carolina in a way that is hard to explain in words to people who view SC as a big joke but this sums it up - a huge line of people from all different racial and cultural backgrounds taking time out of their day to show solidarity to victims of a racial hate crime. When a black man was shot in the back by a cop in North Charleston a few weeks ago he was charged with murder very quickly. And this week lawmakers were quick to propose taking down the confederate flag, which is a symbol of racism for many. (a friend of mine also compared this to throwing away your fat jeans to lose weight instead of going to the gym, and I think she has a really good point...but hey, its a start).

There are a lot of tiny, isolated towns in SC and throughout the south like Karen mentioned, hiding a multitude of racists intent on hanging on to the past....but overall I think SC has done a lot to move forward since desegregation. And I definitely dont think racism is strictly a southern problem. The most vile racist I've ever met in my life was from NYC.

 

I'll share something that a (real life) friend posted on another site. I'm just tossing this out for thought and maybe debate. He isn't one to be lured by liberals or conservatives. These are not my words but I don't think he's making the case for keeping a flag as much as seeking the root of the problem.