more atheists today

the way that you assess the statement abovely stated in the context of said text is-
you get the idea...using big words and statements that just repeat whatyou said before does NOT make you smart, nor does it make you "win".
I am trying to hvae a conversation, I state my point, I back it with evidence, and all you can say is some load of bullshit about how you talked about this 15 years ago....but you manage to say it differently every time.

Excuse my french but back up what you fucking say man! you are just making open poionts and not backing the at all...Respond to what I say, don't just shurg it off as senseless and stuff.
When you can respond without looking like an asshole THEN and ONLY THEN will people take you seriously.

I can respond to that with greed and corruption come from power, which religion is a main source of. I get the idea though. =) (and I am glad someone here can discuss, not just usebig words to try and put the other person down, thanks paul =D)

 

Religion is a main source of power?

I dont think thats at all accurate. Isn't it more accurate to say that religion is a result of power? When religions start out they are just teachings and ideas, then people seek to institutionalise these ideas and create dogmas. When this happens the institution aka religion becomes easily corruptable, people manipulate the original ideas and the followers for there own selfish gains, for power/money etc. The people at the top of the heirarchy use the concept of faith to keep the people the followers from questioning there authority (and the authority of 'god'), they also use fear of punishment (by god) as a means of control.
I don't think you can claim religious institutions are the source of power. It's clearly the other way around.

 

On rare occasions I have a migraine headache, am tired from hours at work and high on Advil liquigels.
In this rare case I had two different threads at the same time.
I figured Razoroccam had jumped the premise.

In fact, he just made some pointless contribution.
My bad for the mixup.

As for all your other complaints... nonsense.

 

Ikden

Really... But you offer no reply. Occam suggested that adam and eve
are a parable, a story for bards sitting by a fire at the local inn.
As are Odin and Thor. Zues and olympus.
ALL, now legend, not fact.

Creationism and adam and eve. Are quaint legend.

The old testament is no longer old, it is dust.
Soon it will pass beyond dust to the compontent atoms.
All the billions of bibles will become what they were to start with.
Trees.
Products of evolution.

Occam

 

Paul

Occam knows where you are comming from but must say that this is not the case.
Human life had FAR LESS value up to say 1800ad.
After that, MORE effort day by day was spent to stop the taking of human lives by others.
Now..WHO HAS seen a person killed in public ???????????
You...??? occam has not.
Yet it was very common in say 32 ad ..when 'he' was nailed to a tree.

Why did the church stop burning witches???
Because it was not poliically astute to do so.

If occam gets a cancer. He might live by influence of the health system.
But why would they do so?
Because humans inherently want to live.
ANd that abillity must be allowed for all if you want all to contribute [taxes]

SELF INTEREST has resulted in life being of greater value than it ever has been.

Cynicism?.. no , the real world. As we have made it.

Occam

 

there have always been bad times throughout history and today we are all living in bad times once more ......difference is today mankind has technology more destructive than in the past .

 

Ikedn fails to back anything up...so lets ignore him and stick to someone with real ideas, panda, you bring up a good point when you say

that made me think, and what i learned is that power is not always someone controlling or influencing another. Power can be internal. such as love or will power. and to tie it all back together, KNOWLEDGE. humans get power from understanding, because they know...it is all human nature, get it? GOod point!

you can;t seriously think that the average atheist(if there is such a thing) spends all his time thinking of ways to make fun of religion, its just a hobby for most of us =) and who said any of us aren;t peaceful? Just because there is trouble in the world we are wrong to discuss ideas and try to better understand eachother?
I think that it is more beneficiary for people to discuss ideas and open their minds to atheism(and other religions) and not just choose one and defend it for the sake of defending it....IMO

 

Paul

Yes, Occam knows what you are saying and many of your points to
his post are quite valid.
But still disagree. The dark ages were 'bad times'
The inquisition and the black death were bad times.

What we have now is a paradise compared to the absolute ignorance of the mass of humanity in the past.
A 'homeless person of no means' can now walk into a library and access
a trillion pages of human knowledge.
This would have a blessing from god in ad500

Yes, people now are killed in the street in 'some parts' of the world.
2500 years back people were so killed in ALL parts of the world.
You went to the colleseum to WATCH PEOPLE BE KILLED in the
very capital of civilization..rome.

Also.. 'technologically more destructive'..means what?
sticks, stones, spears,swords, ballista, lances, flintlocks, rifles,
pistols, grenades, machine guns, assault rifles, nerve gas, cluster
munitions, railguns and thermonukes.
Are but the tools weilded by the hand that kills.

Occam suggests human moral parameters have shifted in a large segment
of the population. Violence is now seen more as a way to stop the
aggressor/offender.
Not a way to get what you want.
Violence it now seems is the preserve of organisations.
Be they criminal [mafia/triad/yakusa/cartel and many others]
Or official [National governments]

Comments?

Occam

 

agree with rest of your post .........(sadly).....lets hope for a better tomorrow .

 

SHroud of turin anyone?
lets hear aboutt hat =) I am sure some fanatic here believes that it prooves the bible....

 

Ah,, the shroud..
The ancient worlds version of a drunk secretary photocopying her twat
on an office machine..

What a load of papist crud

Occam

 

Well, I'm not so sure that's true... and I haven't the patience to research and find out right now, but I think a good chunk of why it may SEEM there are more atheists now, is that for one, you are 15, and you're more aware of your surroundings now, more than before... you are realizing, and seeing things outside of the box, outside of the environment you grew up in...and thanks to technology, information and other religions and non-religions that are not typically practiced around your culture/environment, are accessible...
You're from the US (so am I), and the US is probably one, if not the most, Christian oriented nations in the world... and because the US is a tad more ignorant to other countries' values and beliefs (in general), so coming upon other atheists through the internet, or television, etc, might make it appear that the numbers have increased...but Im not so sure they have. I think that it just might be less difficult to be ignorant to the rest of the worlds' beliefs and non-beliefs, now, than in the past.

BUT, the numbers of atheists could have perhaps, increased due to the internet and such. Because, kids these days, can access the internet and gather new ideas, from other people, from other cultures, OUTSIDE OF what they are brought up with, and raised around. (Adults too, really) I mean, look at yoga and meditation.... its finally worked its way into America, and becoming a really popular thing... but it has been around for fucking EVER, in other parts of the world.

I think people now, are starting to ask more questions, and are starting to find themselves more so than say, when our parents were children. There is a lot more freedom in quest for knowledge now than then. And today, new parents, are far more flexible in understanding and accepting a more diverse society than generations ago, when traditions and being conservative was highly valued and honored.

(In an unrelated matter, I think it may be part of the reason that parents today seem to have a bit more trouble raising children than in the past... more questions are being asked, and control over your children is non-existent today... and I think a lot of parents just don't know how react to this: How can one teach their children respected values and ideals while they are subjected to many others everyday, both positive and negative? I think a lot of parents, (especially parents that are my parents generation) are having trouble even answering these sorts of questions, because they were not taught or raised the same way we are.)

Also, I like what someone said earlier about atheists often not being vocal about it, or referring to themselves as atheists, even if they might be, because they don't like categorization. One could say I'm an atheist, but I prefer to not consider myself anything at all, most of the time (unless I really have to sum it up for someone) because I believe that the way I believe and feel can not, and should not be categorized. It is often misunderstood, when you just call yourself an atheist, lots of questions are asked, lots of people have the wrong idea about atheism, and think that just as any religion, there is some sort of long list of criteria you must meet to be an atheist... while, atheism is the complete opposite of that. However, lots of people, want short, one-word answers. If somebody asks me what religion I am, and I go into a long explanation... they still ask me at the end, "so what are you?"

And that is precisely what I despise about putting a name to "atheism"--- I'm not this or that, I'm me, and I am perfectly comfortable, and fufilled with believing what I believe, unrelated to a god, or a structure/organization to compliment my moral values.

If that makes any sense.