My plan of escape!!! :)

how come none of the aruba, bonaire and curacao and the other dutch islands ever got into the whole decriminilization thing? too close to USA?

 

Good point! To be honest, I have no clue. I think they decriminalized it here because well, people were doing it anyway (the whole provo/kabouter/damsleeper/dijker/pleiner/hippy/etc movement in the '60 made sure of that).. so I think they had too choices: either to bash in hard and start punishing people.. or to let it go and make some rules & regulations about it. Maybe on the islands there was never that kind of movement and therefor it wasn't a big issue? I honestly don't know, just guessing now..

 

wow, you really did find utopia! it seems you really fell for the whole image hook, line and sinker. the netherlands has some really great aspects and the dutch have passed some progressive policy in the past, but thing have changed.

few would argue that an ideal situation would be one in which people do work together 'in a state of progess and social unity', however I can assure you that amsterdam is not an example of that.

i've been travelling to the netherlands for over 15 years and have lived there for the almost 2. I can honestly tell you that underneath the thin sheath of tolerance lurks ugly, deep seeded, national and institutionalized intolerance.

after living in the netherlands (and Im the first to admit that it took at least 6 months before the truth started to reveal itself and even longer until i was prepared to accept the fact that the netherlands is not the place i thought it was), i can say that it's one of the most aggressive and repressive places i've been. i haven't lived in southern usa but i have spent time living in new york and on the west coast and there is no doubt that when it comes to racial equlity and acceptance, those places have amsterdam beat.

labelling any place as perfect (or anywhere near it) is really dangerous. people come back from amsterdam and they're so enchanted by the dope, prostitution etc, that they mistakingly believe it's all about freedom and tolerance. what it's really about is money.

they also have a tendancy to hang around places like hip forums and develope their fanatises of living in pot heaven where everything is perfect. they build the dutch up as some sort of master race and suddenly all the wrongs (past and present) are are no longer noticed.

this also comes from the understandable desire of most people to want for a better world, we like to believe that somewhere has got it right. what most fail to understand is that no place is utopia (least of all holland), and by building any place up as such, you're giving it a certain power that can all too easily be abused.

 

well, i'm the first to admit that i still have some resentment towards the netherlands (for a number of very valid reasons). i was on the receiving end of some pretty brutal and and even life theatening treatment at the hands of dutch policy and attitudes. my vision of the tolerant utopia came crashing down pretty hard and i cant help but get a little worked up when i see people painting it as the answer to the worlds problems.

the dutch aren't bad people (im half dutch and have many dutch friends and family whom i love dearly), but they ain't perfect either. perhaps im guilty of painting the netherlands as the root of all evil. for this i am sorry and i don't believe it's all bad, but i can see how you might get that impression. i have lashed out on this board many times when perhaps i should have been more balenced, but that's life.

i almost feel like im in mourning. i always thought the netherlands had the answer and that i could move there and be a part of it. when i found out that it's far from the image i had constructed from visiting, i felt like i lost something very important to me. i know realize it was naive and ignorant for me to build amsterdam up like i did. when i first moved, expats i encountered all over the country started to let me know what it was really like, but i wouldn't hear any of it. to me, amstedam was the answer to all my prayers and damned if i was going to let reality shatter that!

i hope you do try to move there. i wouldn't take back my experience of living over there (overall), but it was the total opposite of what i expected. that said, amsterdam is still a great city and there are many awesome aspects to living there, but it ain't what it seems on the surface.

 

No shit.. hehe.. maybe there is a therapy group for it somewhere? Forgive me for only skimming your last two posts, I have a feeling there is nothing in it that you haven't said before.

Hey.. if a guy like him talks like that.. I can only feel sorry for him about how shitty his current location must be to drool all over the city I live in. Everyday life is just that.. everyday life. Sure, I have weed in the house that I legally bought, but unless you think that you'll manage study & work completely stoned all day it's not that interesting anyway. I keep saying it.. every city and every country has it's own trouble. Ofcourse, when only seen at vacation for a short amount of days, Amsterdam looks awesome, while there is a lot more to it than that, trust me, I know. But on the other hand it's not like the Amsterdam people are trying to fool tourists..it's not like we take off our masks in the offseason, kick back and talk about how much fun it was too fool all the tourists into thinking we're nice.

For the bazzilionst time... people should realize that a holiday paradise is just the same old boring place if you live there for a while. You wake up, take a shower, clean the house, do work/study, get groceries, make food, watch tv or post on a forum and go to bed. Once in a while you will hang out with friends, just like you would do in any other place you live. Simple as that.. every day life in an every day country.

 

priceless

 

Some people can have such bad luck in life
that they often meet it half way, mate.!

 

true, but i wouldn't consider myself to have an excess of bad luck. i've had and continue to have many amazing experiences and my life is far from dull, believe me.

it is true that expats will often complain about their host country (mainly those who move for work or a relationship), but having been an expat in several countries, i can tell you that the complaints about the netherlands are far and above those directed towards other countries. what's more, 99% of the time they are legitimate.

all you have to do is take a look around the expatica site (and i know many of you do). browse the dutch forum and then have a read of the other forums for expats in spain, france etc. you can't help but notice recurrring themes. this isn't just coincidence. this isn't just limited to expatica either, the same thing occurs on several message boards for expats living in holland. why is it that the complaints about holland and about the dutch are 1000000 times more common? anyone reading this who has done the expat thing or worked for an international company will know what im saying.

 

there are a few actually (no, im not kidding!).

this is actually good therapy for me lol

 

Great.. well.. start paying or get off the couch!

 

i think im about done actually
i'm sure many will be glad to see me to the door.

 

you're leaving hipforums?

 

awwww dude.... don't leave hipforums! You're the first person I've ever argued with here who responded in a mature, admirable way! You make a good point about the nationalism I barely had a glimpse of while I was in Amsterdam, but especially in Germany. I saw a lot of aggression towards the Turks and other foreigners from the East. We actually were outside of a Burger King when the police came barreling through the crowds of people walking outside and they arrested a young man with a bookbag and a concealed bloody knife which was about the size of an American Bowie knife. My brother wanted to stand and watch the whole scene, but I was having a bad trip, and the last time I tripped on shrooms I saw a guy bleeding profusely down three flights of stairs and then he was outside, leaning on my car in the rain which made the water on the sidewalk run pink with his blood as it spilled out of his artery. I tried to look away, but the next thing we know, there were news crews and cameras right next to us and we then saw the victim being escorted out of the restraunt and to an ambulance... he was stabbed all up and down his back. That night Peter and I were flipping the channels on the tv back at the hotel and we actually saw ourselves on there for a sec... I guess I should have realized that there is still that whole European nationalism factor no matter where you go.... Perhaps Canada would be a better move for me... Regardless... I'll figure something out....

 

Holy crap, that's quite a scene you witnessed....

I'm confused though.. was this in Amsterdam or Germany?

 

oh that shit was in Amsterdam like almost exactly one year ago
I wanna say it was like August 7th or something... It was at the bigass Burger King that looks like some kinda mega-super-burger-king palace or some shit.

 

Damn that's pretty serious.. I think I know where you mean.. close to the Dam right? But yeah, this stuff can happen in every big city anywhere.. just to bad it had to be the one you are having your vacation in.

If you ever dare to go back, I'll toke with ya We're not all scary here!

 

velvet i liked your post abbout everyday life in an everyday country.
i'm going to uni in leiden next year. and i never expected to enjoy anything more than cycle my bike around, smoke some weed in my place at night, and fuck a few prostitutes (lol jk)
you cant expect much more than that right? jason, im sorry you didn't have the experience you'd hoped for. but hey as a wise indian man told me, coming to india (insert amsterdam here) is like taking acid. you could have a good trip or a bad trip, but at least you bloody had the trip.

 

Wow.. that's an awesome saying and very very true. Although Jason is probably gonna say now that amsterdam is equal to bad acid and therefor people like him can hardly have a good trip blahblah Did that wise indian man also have a saying about people with a negative outlook on everything?