No More Tears

It clearly has more than one interpretation from my point of view. This should be no problem for a fellow christian anyhow, yet it does. Actually, the whole lot of narrow-viewed opinions on the bible and later dogma's have caused me to not wanted to be associated with christianity anymore. Jesus said lots of things, I don't think the idealized biblical Jesus would have a problem with people who don't agree with his 'Fathers words' about the creation of the world and such. Any way, why would I follow Jesus? God's people don't follow him neither (will they all gnash their teeth eternally after their death?)

 

Actually, I was pretty surprised to realize the amazing harmony of the Bible... I wasn't always a Christian, but I always hated presuppositions so I made it a goal of mine to find out for myself if Barthes theory was correct about the Bible.

The Bible has an amazing way of slowly revealing itself to those that say "maybe".

Check out my oldest posts on these forums. I was even trying to sway people away from Christianity because I thought they were confused.

 

What did you discover of Barthes theory in relation to the bible? To what do you attribute your conversion?

 

Yes, you have made that perfectly clear.

It should be no problem for "Christians" that feel that the Bible can be interpreted anyway you feel like, like you seem to.

To bad you didn't get around to God's view of the Bible.

Actually Jesus said; "YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition".

Because it's the best way of life? It would help you to be a better person? By doing so you can have everlasting life?

God considers many who are not Christian to be his people but has told them there are certain things they must do if they wish to keep living and one of those things is to follow Jesus.

No, none will, after all they will be dead.

 

How does one obtain God's view of the bible?

 

As I have pointed out several times, there are a number of things you could do.

One, would be to realize that the Bible does not contradict itself.

Also realize that there is no need to interpret the Bible, if you are not sure what a scripture says there are other scriptures that will help you understand it.

Make sure that you are not taking a scripture out of context.

Realize that the truth is simple, so simple that a child can understand it, so don't try to make it a mystery or mystical or overly complicated. What the Bible says is usually exactly what it means.

It also helps to read it with a positive attitude rather than a negative one.

These should give you a good start.

 

I'm afraid that this is not a useful instruction as in the way you use the terms "help you understand" could mean any of the following.
un·der·stand [ùndər stánd]
(past and past participle un·der·stood [ùndər std], present participle un·der·stand·ing, 3rd person present singular un·der·stands)
v
1. vti grasp meaning of something: to know or be able to explain to yourself the nature of somebody or something, or the meaning or cause of something
I can't understand what all the fuss is about.
2. vti come to know something: to realize or become aware of something
finally understood the urgency of the situation
3. vt know meaning of words in language: to recognize and be able to translate the words of a foreign language
understands Spanish
4. vti know and sympathize: to recognize somebody's character or somebody's situation, especially in a sympathetic, tolerant, or empathetic way
It's such a relief to find someone who understands.
5. vt take something as meant: to interpret something in a particular way, or to infer or deduce a particular meaning from something
understood it as a peaceful gesture
6. vt take something as settled: to believe something to be agreed, settled, or firmly communicated
I was given to understand you had agreed.
7. vt know something by learning or hearing: to gather or assume something on the basis of having heard or been told it
He is, I understand, expected later.
8. vt linguistics infer implicit meaning: to assume information or a meaning that is implied but not expressed directly (usually passive)
[ Old English understandan < under + standan (see stand)]
Further the word interpret means,
in·ter·pret [in túrprət]
(past and past participle in·ter·pret·ed, present participle in·ter·pret·ing, 3rd person present singular in·ter·prets)
v
1. vt find meaning of something: to establish or explain the meaning or significance of something
2. vt ascribe meaning to something: to ascribe a particular meaning or significance to something
I interpreted his gesture as an invitation.
3. vt perform something in particular way: to perform something such as a play or piece of music in a way that conveys particular ideas or feelings about it
4. vti translate something: to translate what is said in one language into another so that speakers of different languages can communicate
These two words, understand and interpret are so close to same in definition as to be difficult to weed apart. It is just not a lot to go on.

 

I can see why you might have trouble understanding not only the Bible but anything that might be said to you.

 

How is using other scriptures to find out what a certain scripture means something other than interpreting the scripture (also, haven't things been taken out of context all along because of doing precisely this)? Ok, if this really makes sense to you I think it's rather pointless to go on.

 

I discovered that it doesn't apply to the Bible.

Mostly personal study; I compared varying interpretations of many denominations, some made sense, and some did not. I am still doing this but what was once confusing to me about the Bible is no longer confusing for me. I reached outside my comfort zone a lot and was bracing for whatever the truth was and told myself whatever it is that I would accept it.

Through that study, I came to test the idea that scripture interprets itself if we allow it and I found that it does.

 

Check out the posts this dude has been putting out daily since forever. Anybody who thinks this nonsense has anything to do with a God worthy of worship is a hopeless case. OWB justifies genocide, slavery, male chauvinism, homophobia, and rejection of all science that doesn't conform to his preconceptions. He worships a book because it gives him a feeling of security and certainty. In uncertain times, that's admittedly not chopped liver, but biblidolatry has nothing to do with the love God and Jesus have given us. This religion is a mind crippling disease, bringing premature brain death rather than eternal life.

 

Some of the greatest men in history have found the Bible to be a source of great wisdom, which it is, but they didn't interpret it the way you do.

 

Hmmmm. I find numerous references to Hell in the New Testament, many of them attributed to Jesus. Matthew contains a dozen, including:

Mat. 8:12 & 25: 30. "...weeping and gnashing of teeth".
Mat.13: 42 and 13:50 "...wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Mat.13:42. "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire'.
Mat.25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, depart from me , ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

There are also:

Mark,9:43-48: "...to go into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched"

Luke, 16:24: "...for I am tormented in this flame."

Revelation 20:13-15:"...and whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire".

Rev. 21:8 "...the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone".


Etc.
So are you saying these passages were written by Satan to deceive us? Or that they don't mean what they seem to say? Or that these passages aren't really part of the Bible? Could you please explain?

 

Matthew 13:41-42 ...(So) shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness and will throw them into the furnace of fire: in that place there will be weeping an gnashing of teeth." Mat. 13:50 is similar.And you're saying that is "part of a parable that has to do with those who are outside the truth being upset when their falsehoods are exposed." I'm sorry man. I think the "parable" is a little stronger than "upset". By the way, the "furnace of fire" part is not parable; it's Jesus' explanation of what the parable meant!

 

I've read your link. I hope you realize that what you (or your sources) have done is to treat a lot of the Biblical passages as metaphor, and I would say farfetched metaphor at that. So what you have is a biblical interpretation that can slip and slide between rigid literalism and farfetched metaphor to suit the occasion. Are you the source of this theological exposition or did it come from some other source. Jehovah's Witnesses, perhaps? Or could it be...?

Think about what you've been saying. First you tell us, inter alia, "Realize that the truth is simple, so simple that a child can understand it, so don't try to make it a mystery or mystical or overly complicated. What the Bible says is usually exactly what it means." Then you tell us that a bunch of scriptural passages about hell that seem to have a plain meaning don't mean what they seem to say, but mean a lot of other things that wouldn't occur to the ordinary reader without his Watchtower handy. How can we wrap our minds around that?

I do agree with a lot of what your link says. There is one passage in particular that sums up my own views on the subject:

Is eternal torment of the wicked compatible with God’s personality?
​

Jer. 7:31: “They [apostate Judeans] have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.” (If it never came into God’s heart, surely he does not have and use such a thing on a larger scale.)
Illustration: What would you think of a parent who held his child’s hand over a fire to punish the child for wrongdoing? “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) Would he do what no right-minded human parent would do? Certainly not!

That says it all, man! That's the way scripture should be interpreted. Love is the context!

 

If you're speaking of the Midianites, I think you told us once before but it may have been lost when they closed the Bible contradictions thread. I'd like to hear it again, since as I recall your answer was a classic illustration of the lengths to which a fundamentalist will go to justify atrocities. We're talking here about a command by God to take vengance on the Midianites. After sacking their city and slaughtering the men, Moses was angry that his captains spared all the women. He blamed the women for their role (collectively) in somehow causing the Israelites to support the evil diviner Baalam. Moses ordered them to kill every male child and every female who had intercourse, but to save the female virgins for themselves. Okay, and what again is the justification for this slaughter of children?

Over to you. Let's see if you can answer a question without asking one.

 

I can see why you don't understand the Bible either.

 

I do not worship a book, I worship the God who wrote the book. If you wish to denigrate the Book and the God who wrote it and his Son as well, that is up to you.

 

I never said they did but they probably didn't follow your "interpretation" either.