Obama's war crimes

The perceptions of many. For one.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA

watch this, some of you will enjoy it.

 

Anyone in the UK watch Question Time the other night?

They were talking about the war, and about what the real reasons for being in Afghanistan were.

George Galloway was speaking, and pointed out that the perpetrators of 911 did no actually come from Afghanistan, or Iraq, but Saudi Arabia. He then went on to point out that during the attacks Geoff Hoon, who was sitting on the panel also, was at the time selling arms to Saudi Arabia.

Now, whatever your opinion of George Galloway is, you cannot deny, the facts speak for themselves.

 

I watched it.
Can't remember what the other panelists said in response...
But my response would have been:
No, the perpetrators of 911 didn't come from Afghanistan, but that is where they were trained and OBL is hiding away in the Afghan/ Pakistan border region.
The reason we went to Afghanistan was to find him...seems we atleast found his son.
You don't generally "attack" a place where the object of your "attack" isn't there (Saudi Arabia.)

 

Geoff Hoon just sat there silent, he knows there was nothing he could say in response, because Galloway was right.

Is there any real proof that OBL is in Afghanistan?

He could be fucking anywhere! He could be hiding in India, or Kashmir, or Nepal.

The Himalayas is a BIIIIG place.

I know a Bangladeshi guy who reckons OBL is in America! But I don't really buy into that.

When I questioned him on that statement, he just said "...of course he is!" Still didn;t convince me though.

Bin Laden could be in Saudi Arabia also you know, why has no-one ever questioned that possibility? It is where he comes from after all.

So let's say OBL IS in Afghanistan, and we eventually capture him. What then?

No more Bin Laden, no more Jihad?

I don't think so, I think, Galloway often says, we will only create a thousand more Bin Ladens.

 

I'll have to watch it on iplayer.

It is true, he could be anywhere now and back in 2001...but we do know for a fact his training grounds are in the region I mentioned. Plus:

Operation Enduring Freedom,
The stated aim of the invasion was to find the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden and other high-ranking al-Qaeda members and put them on trial, to destroy the whole organization of al-Qaeda, and to remove the Taliban regime which supported and gave safe harbor to al-Qaeda. The United States' Bush Doctrine stated that, as policy, it would not distinguish between terrorist organisations and nations or governments that harbor them.

George Galloway can come out with all the populist theories he likes...
But he doesn't really have a whole lot of proof...

That's kinda what I think when I listen to GG. "ofcourse it is." (I generally roll my eyes too.)

Yeah, there will still be "Jihad"....but lets not believe that we created anything here.
Just because OBL comes out with that BS...we don't have to.

 

Yeah we should know that, because we trained him.

Is that why they had to slaughter thousands of innocent Iraqis, and lock people up in torture camps to get their hands on Saddam Hussein?

Never heard GG say that, he usually presents a very well read and eloquent argument for anything he says. He is a bit of a fanny though, but I like him, I think he is funny.
Did you know he came out recently and admitted to having been sexually abused by his school janitor? Maybe that's why he is a bit fucked up.

AFIAC he more more integrity than most of the politicians these days.

I'd like to believe you are right on that point, but I don't

Our strategy of dealing with this situation is only going to exacerbate anti-western sentiment.

 

I know http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showpost.php?p=5743339&postcount=35
What has training him (and thousands of other who didn't suddenly decide to have a Jihad)...got to do with knowing some of the locations of Al-Quaeda training grounds?
Pretty much most of the worlds governments know there are Al-Quaeda training grounds in that region.

Nice stab at cynicism though.

I wouldn't use the word "slaughter" or "torture camps"...but, pretty much yes.
That sounds harsh, but there is no sugar coating a certain reality.

I knew something of his past.
I don't totally dislike the man, I just disagree with him on this issue (and many others.)
I liked listening to him on the radio...

Integrity? Perhaps you just agree with more of what he has to say.

Al-Quaeda and their supporters kill people all over the world including fellow Muslims.
Anybody could fart in the wrong direction and they will claim it is an insult to Islam...and wish kill them.
So no, I am not going to agree we exacerbate anything.

 

No, it wasn't cynicism, I was just stating the facts.

Yeah it sounds harsh, because that's exactly what it was!

I disagree with him on some points too, I don't like his stance on drug prohibition. He is also not as liberal as I would like to think he is.

He is not a warmonger though, which is a plus point for me anyway.

Isn't what someone says a measure of their integrity?

They are not just launching a terrorist campaign against the west for no reason Odon, they didn't just read the fucking Qu'ran and go, oh right so it must be time to blow everything up now.

It's based on centuries of war and western hegemony.

They are bound to be bitter because of it, I would be bitter. I am bitter, because the west has to live with the consequences of our forefathers as well, and our present ones.

 

You seemed to be inferring it was related.
Like we set up those camps.
We didn't.

I pretty much agreed with you.
But like I said, I wouldn't use those terms because they are your bias not mine.
I do, however, appreciate many thousands of people are dead and many more will die too.
Not all at the hands of "us."
As for the "torture camps" - yes there has been torture in some of the prisons.

Have you ever heard him talk about WWII?

That doesn't sound quite right to me.
I agree with what Tony Blair has said over the years.
Does this mean Tony Blair has Integrity?

How many Muslims are there in the world?
How many are blowing the shit out of western targets and any one else who gets in their way?
I appreciate they have said the same kind of things you have just said...but the argument - for me any way - falls down when you consider the targets they have picked and the groups they have backed.
They want the Taleban back in power - those freedom loving people who don't oppress their own people and just want the best for them.

They are bitter towards Turkey too...a Muslim country.
They are bitter towards many other nations other than western.
Why? because they do not share their goals which is pretty much turning all countries with a population of Muslims in, into a Muslim state.
I do realise our history with the Muslim world is tense and is filled with bad history on both sides.
But come on, stable and NORMAL diplomatic relations are there...and on many of their issues Al-Quaeda are full blown hypocrites.
They say what best makes them seem the victim rather than the perpetrator.

 

I think my neighbor tried to break into my car last week. The cops came and they were going to knock on my neighbor's door and question him, and I said "He lives there, and he's there right now, but he was born in Mexico. So shouldn't you go check in Mexico?". When the cops pointed out that was idiotic, I just said that that's what Galloway would have said, and Galloway is my hero.

 

Islam is behind centuries of war and conquest too. I personally have forgiven them for invading Spain, but perhaps I should still be full of hatred and resentment? Perhaps I should be bitter about Turkey's conquests in Europe?

Islamic terrorism is about everything from opposition to independence for East Timor to Al Queda in Iraq's war on Shiite muslims. Its very hard to see why a Saudi like Osama can blame western imperialism for his military adventures in Afghanistan - he was the foreigner fighting the Afghan people on behalf of a cruel monster of a regime.

I think you are trying too hard to sympathise with Islamic terrorism by pretending it is all about things that you yourself oppose, when in fact it is not.

 

Yes. Your point being?

No, because what Tony Bliar says and what he does are two completely different things.

But isn't it ultimately up to them anyway, shouldn't they have the freedom to run their own country their own way, even if it is wrong?

Al Qaeda are scum. So are the Taliban.

But it's got fuck all to do with us, or shall I just say it's got fuck all to do with me.

Yet I still have to fund the stupid war.

 

If Al Qaeda come from Saudi Arabia originally, then wouldn't it be fair to also ask, are there any terrorists hiding there as well?

Why don't we ask this?

Why were the Bin Laden flown out of America by private jets, when all other flights were grounding, without so much as detaining them for questioning?

If my country wants my support in this war, and I donot guarantee they will get it, I want questions like this and many others answered.

 

Yeah fair enough. Most countries have some blood on their hands if you look throughout history, you cannot hold a nation to account for the crimes of it's forefathers.

But it's ALSO what we are doing in the present.

I am NOT sympathising with terrorism!

 

What has he said about it?

I misss read what you said. I get you.

The Afghan government want us there.
They help us, we help them.
Your not so ill informed enough not to know these things are you?

I respect your opion.
But just because you don't think it is right...doesn't mean it isn't.

 

I think I see where you are going with this.

There's a big difference between defending your country against invasion, and invading another country, and bombing it.

 

Do you mean the Bin Laden family? They washed their hands/disowned him years ago. I guess they were ushered out of the country for their own protection. Some crazy yank might think they are all the same (terrorists.) You don't do you?

 

I'm glad you figured it out.

Just for an e.g..I think WWII was illegal and wrong.
All the leaders lied to me and wanted oil out of I dunno...Poland or atleast have easy access to oil running through it.

http://www.robertamsterdam.com/yamal.gif

Why was my tax used for such imperialist endeavors?

Fucking bastard warmongers

Just a differing perspective.

 

So they capture people from all across the world, sometimes on the stregnth of evidence extracted from people through torture, incarcerate them for years without trial and torture them, all in the name of the "war on terror"

But they don't even question the Bin Laden family on anything?

If someone commits murder, and you are looking for them, the first place you look to is their home and their immediate family.

Does this not strike you as even a bit untoward?