Oh, the games people play:-((((((

don't have to do with two-faced people, specially the religious types.......

if you had "eyes" to "see" you would know The Answer has been given.......

may you one day receive The Answer.......

while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope that all souls held captive by the religious systems of this world
would heed The Call of The ONLY TRUE GOD to":

"Come out of her, MY people......."

all who "come out" will set their affections on things above", and as
The Messiah so also will they "serve The ONLY TRUE GOD" as they
desire above all else, "Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done"!

simply, "The Way to The Truth of The Life".......

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francisco
http://ASpiritualJourney.Org

 

Hey Francisco, tell me if I got this right;


What you're saying is; God is Truth, the messiah was the manifestation of the truth therfore he and god were/are one, therfore anyone who accepts the truth becomes one with the messiah and therfore one with God.

therefore asking if the messiah created the universe is unanswerable to anyone who needs to ask the question (?)

 

appreciate the questioning.......

yes, The Family of GOD is One, yet there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD.......

and i copied a portion of another post here.......

"The Messiah, He was the beginning of the creation of The ONLY TRUE GOD"!

now if The Messiah was "the beginning of the creation", He could not
have "created all things"?

and "THE ONLY TRUE GOD, HE Is Father of ALL"! HE is The Creator!

and the apostle paul bore witness to:

"The ONE(and ONLY TRUE) GOD, Father of ALL".......

and "The ONLY TRUE GOD was in The Messiah".......

"The ONLY TRUE GOD is The HEAD of The Messiah,
and The Messiah is The Head of the man,
and the man is the head of the woman"........

yet there is Oneness! for as there was, is and always
will be ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, so also there was, is, and
always will be Only One True Messiah, and they are One.

One in Unity, United, Unified, Undivided, yet so are all
others in The Family of GOD, The Family of One.......

yet there will always be ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, Father of ALL!
and Only One True Messiah, He Who gave His Life that we
might receive Life!

"godliness", to be "godlike", is not to be The ONLY TRUE GOD,
it is to be liken unto HIM.......

no not unanswerable, yet it must be realized that all questions
do not deserve an answer, nor need they be answered, nor need
The Answer be given as a man would demand.......

and while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope that all souls held captive by the religious systems of this world
would take heed unto The Call of The ONLY TRUE GOD to":

"Come out of her, MY people......."

all who "come out" will set their affections on things above", and as
The Messiah did so also will they "serve The ONLY TRUE GOD", and as
The Messiah did they will desire above all else, "Father, not my will,
But THY Will Be Done"!

simply, such a desire is "The Way to The Truth of The Life".......

peace, even as war(spriitual and carnal) rages...... francisco

 

thank you for answering my question.

 

Let me explain why Francisco cannot answer the question with a name. The Father in the Old Testament has clearly stated that He made all things alone and by Himself . In the New Testament it states that Jesus Christ made all things, and not even one thing came into existance that was made without Jesus Christ doing it. Francisco believes that Jesus Christ was a created being who was created by the Father. If you are a Christian you believe that Jesus and the Father are two persons of the three person trinity, so the verse would be correct. But if you believe that Jesus was a created being, then you would have an obvious counterdiction. For Jesus Christ could not of made all things if the Father is saying He made all things alone and by Himself. So that is the reason Francisco cannot say it was Jesus or the Father, because either name He would give would be a counterdiction. The Bible reads correctly, but Francisco's doctrine cannot explain the counterdiction. So he stonewalls hopeing I stop asking the question. You find this same kind of problem if you are a member of the Watchtower Society. They do not believe that God exist in three persons. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.

 

why you perverse slave to the pagan harlot that calls herself "christian".
you, who know not The Messiah and pervert the very words in the "book"
you say you believe.

you lying child of "the god of this world", you who would associate me
with one of your sister religious systems know as "jw's".......

you enemy of all that is Truth, and worst yet, because of you and those
liken unto you "The Way of Truth is evil spoken of".......period.......

you "whited sepulchure full of nothing but dead mens bones", you servant
of "the father of lies" and "lover of your own life in and of this wicked, evil
world"!

you who deny "The Messiah, the beginning of the creation of The ONLY
TRUE GOD", who deny that "The Messiah came in the flesh" and would
have others deny "The ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD, Father of ALL".

your damnable heretical doctrine that you call the "trinity" is naught
but a three-headed image of a monster that would consume all souls
caught up in such "strong delusion".

you, who follow the legacy of the pharisee, you will have your portion
with them.

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope that many would "see" your 'jesus' for what he is, naught but
the imagined name for one-head of the three-headed pagan 'god'
of the "christian" religious system that holds multitudes captive midst
the confusion that is her "strong delusion".......

hope is there would be those who would take heed unto The Call of
The ONLY TRUE GOD to:

"Come out of her, MY people......."

all who "come out" will set their affections on things above", and as
The Messiah did so also will they "serve The ONLY TRUE GOD", and as
The Messiah did they will desire above all else, "Father, not my will,
But THY Will Be Done"!

and The Messiah?

"The Messiah, He was the beginning of the creation of The ONLY TRUE GOD"!

now if The Messiah was "the beginning of the creation", He could not
have "created all things"?

"The ONLY TRUE GOD said, "Let there be Light", and there was Light".......

and "The Messiah was that Light which enlightens every man born into
this world".......

The Messiah, "He was the first-born among many Brethren".......

and The Messiah bore witness of "The ONLY TRUE GOD".......

and "THE ONLY TRUE GOD, HE Is Father of ALL"! HE is The Creator!

and the apostle paul bore witness to:

"The ONE(and ONLY TRUE) GOD, Father of ALL".......

and "The ONLY TRUE GOD was in The Messiah".......

"The ONLY TRUE GOD is The HEAD of The Messiah,
and The Messiah is The Head of the man,
and the man is the head of the woman"........

yet there is Oneness! for as there was, is and always
will be ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, so also there was, is, and
always will be Only One True Messiah, and they are One.

One in Unity, United, Unified, Undivided, yet so are all
others in The Family of GOD, The Family of One.......

yet there will always be ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, Father of ALL!
and Only One True Messiah, He Who gave His Life that we
might receive Life!

"godliness", to be "godlike", is not to be The ONLY TRUE GOD,
it is to be liken unto HIM.......

and The ONLY TRUE GOD'S Children, as The Messiah did, desire
above all else "Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done".......

simply, such a desire is "The Way to The Truth of The Life".......

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francisco

 

You know Francisco, the Bible does say that Jesus was the first born of all creation, but if you read a few verses on, you would understand that Jesus was the first born from the dead, not from the living. Colossians 1:15,16,17,18. Please read your Bible in the full contex, and don't cut chapters in two. Also when Jehovah said in Isaiah 44:24 that He created all things and created the Earth alone and by Himself. Was that a true statement? A simple yes or no would be fine Francisco. I'm simply asking you to agree or disagree with what Jehovah has already stated. Was Jehovah telling the truth when He made that statement? YES OR NO.

 

"evil workers will wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived".......

hope is one day you would come to "know" yourself, who you serve,
what you are! "evil worker", yes there is still hope for such as you.......

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark those who cause divisions and offenses,
contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them."(when that
testimony was given "trinity" was a "doctrine" unknown to The Faithful) "For
such deceivers as they serve not The Messiah, but their own belly, and by
good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple......."

"those whose "god" is their bellies, for they mind earthly things".......

those liken unto you "who love this world(babylon) and their own life in
it:-(((((( those braindirtyed, religious, pagan "christians" who know every
word in their version of their "bible", and yet those words remain but
"colored marks written on a dead tree" because they know not The ONLY
TRUE GOD and are void of HIS Spirit.

at least you admit that The Messiah died! did The ONLY TRUE GOD die?

"The Messiah was THE BEGINNING of The Creation of The ONLY TRUE GOD"!

The Messiah testified, "The ONLY TRUE GOD is a Spirit", and then The Messiah
testified, "touch Me and see for a Spirit has not flesh and bones as I do".......

yet "The ONLY TRUE GOD was in The Messiah, seeking to reconcile the
world unto HIMself".......

and The Testimonies reveal that "The ONLY TRUE GOD, HE can not be
tempted"....... and The Messiah was "tempted as we are, yet without
sin".......

and your unholy "trinity" proof text in an epistle of john is not in the earliest
manuscripts known to mankind. was added to the newer manuscipts by
"catholicism", she who had possession of such manuscipts.......

and yet there is a Spirit that reveals all things, and Spirit and Truth reveal
"the trinity" to be the foundation of the pagan "catholic" religious system. and
all her pagan "christian" daughters have their own version of their pagan "god".

some are held captive by a "trinity", others by "jesus is the only god", and
others by "jesus is an angel",,,etc,,,.......

and The Messiah came "to deliver those who through fear of death were all
their lifetime subject to bondage."

"and the last enemy to be destroyed is death. For The ONLY TRUE GOD has
put all things in subjection under The Messiah's feet. But when it is said, "all
things are put in subjection," it is plain that The ONLY TRUE GOD is excepted
HE WHO put all things in subjection under The Messiah. When all things are
subjected unto The ONLY TRUE GOD, then The Son Himself will also be
subjected to The ONLY TRUE GOD, HE WHO put all things in subjection under
Him so that The ONLY TRUE GOD may be all in all."

simply, "The Messiah is The Son of The Living GOD", and The Living GOD is
The ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD, HE WHO is Father of ALL!

and The Messiah testified, "I ascend to My GOD, and your GOD, to My Father
and your Father".......

The Messiah's GOD is The GOD of His Brethren!
The Messiah's Father is The Father of His Brethren!

The Messiah's GOD and Father, is:

The ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD, Father of ALL.......
HE WHO has no "god" for HE IS GOD!

and The Messiah "served The ONLY TRUE GOD".......

and The ONLY TRUE GOD is The HEAD of The Messiah.......

and The ONLY TRUE GOD said, "Let there be Light", and there was Light".......

and "The Messiah was that Light which enlightens every man born into
this world"......."the beginning of The Creation of The ONLY TRUE GOD"!

and there is Oneness! for as there was, is and always
will be ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, so also there was, is, and
always will be Only One True Messiah, and they are One.

One in Unity, United, Unified, Undivided, yet so are all
others in The Family of GOD, The Family of One.......

yet there will always be ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, Father of ALL!
and Only One True Messiah, He Who gave His Life that we
might receive Life!

"godliness", to be "godlike", is not to be The ONLY TRUE GOD,
it is to be liken unto HIM, to be of HIS Family.......

and The ONLY TRUE GOD'S Children, as The Messiah did, desire
above all else "Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done".......

simply, such a desire is "The Way to The Truth of The Life".......

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francisco

 

You assume Fransisco actually has Bible and that if he did, he'd really take much notice of it anyway - but since he's made it more than abundantly clear that he considers all religious systems as evil, works of 'the god of this world' who he also identifies as the Christians Jesus, I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

Those, like Fran, to whom God has evidently revealed himself directly, consider the Bible and other scriptures so much verbiage.

Although I disagree with him on many points, mainly his nasty attitude towards women, he may be onto something there.

 

"so much verbiage"?

untill those "colored marks written on a dead tree" are experienced, they
hinder rather than help! the multitudes shout, "we know him!" "we know him!"
yet all they know are words they have memorized, and as natural men such
"knowledge, falsely so-called", either deludes or confuses them and then
ultimately will destoy them.......

"my nasty attitude towards women"?

as Our Father, The Messiah, and the apostle paul, so i also have great
respect and love for women....... yet, where are the women?

where is the woman knowing it is Our Father's Will that she submit unto man?
a "meek and quiet" woman, desiring to be a "help meet" in her man's service
unto The ONLY TRUE GOD, Father of ALL.

yet where are the spiritual men? a spiritual man a woman could give herself to?

as to the natural woman....... much is revealed in The Testimonies concerning
such a woman, "there is no wickedness liken unto the wickedness of a
woman", "from clothes come the moth, and from a woman wickedness"!

and The Testimonies reveal when a man and woman join together, "the
woman's body is not longer her's but is the man's. and the man's body is
no longer his but is the woman's", and "the man and woman are to come
together often lest satan tempt them because of their lack of self-control".

yet today? this "modern" world has legislated their own version of
"righteousness" and in doing so has given the natural woman complete
control of the natural man. women have always used their natural bodies,
and the natural desires of a man, as their prime weapon in the manipulation
and control of men....... and today:-(((((

no longer a multitude of women, but today a multitude of woe-men, women
that would rather take the man's place in Creation. and so she/he's abound
and those woe-men are indeed nasty, rebellious, and a blight upon mankind.

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope that there would be those men who would "see" how "poor and needy"
we all are, and in "seeing" would seek Help of Our Father for HE wll lead them
to HIS Son, The Messian, and He will be their guide along "The Way to The
Truth of The Life".......

once they begin to experience such A Spiritual Journey they will "set their
affections on things above" and above all else, the desire of their heart will be
"Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done".

such men will bear witness to Creation's Order and will a be right light for a
woman who "see's" her need, and understands and accepts her place in
Creation's Genius....... no longer rebellious she will realize, and experience
The Life as a woman....... and she will have:

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francisco

 

LOL!!! Are you here to teach us about christianity or pyschology? I didn't ask what Franscico was up to and, sorry, but the question I did ask wasn't directed at you.

you may not be any better at understanding the bible than I am but I'm going to guess I'm a better judge of human nature than you are.

In any case Franscico answered my question just fine and in my opinion, he answered yours too (although that's none of my business).

also, I find it interesting that the one and only time you choose to respond to one of my posts in here it's to use it as ammunition against someone else.

Oh the games people play.

 

So in your opinion Franscico answered my question. Well then, could you tell me how he answered my question, because I have read his post and i'm still waiting for an answer. Remember the question? Did The Father make all things alone and by Himself, or did Jesus make all things? Since in your opinion he answered my question. Could you give me his answer to my question, because I can't get a straight answer from him, outside of a lot of repeated jiberish.
Did Jesus make all things, or did the Father make all things? And I see, according to you, if I question someones belief system, you consider that a personal attack. WOW. And please tell me, what does human nature have to do with Franscico answering a simple question.

 

Ok, I'll give it a shot; but with all due respect please bear in mind I'm not submitting any of this for your approval, I'm merely trying to explain my take on Franscisco's explanation (and my apologese to Franscico if I got it wrong, and for all the ad-libbing in any event).

Part of the problem is that talking about God within the dualistic framework of human language--"yes/no" "right/wrong" "good/evil"--is kind of hard because God's not subject to these limitations. Unless you're extremely openminded (like a child) all you'll wind up with is a paradox at best, or a lot of seeming contradictions.

I expect that you'll find the following pretty silly and that's OK, it probably is (which isn't to say it's not true). please bear with me.

Look at it this way; your father calls you on your cellphone. when you hangup someone asks you "who was that"?
You could say, "That was my cellphone giving me a digital translation of electrical impulses which were themselves translations of audiol vibrations sent via an electrical device and beamed via satalite to this electrical device (hold up cell) where they were translated back into... (etc, etc)--and that would be a perfectly accurate, and truthful, and useless answer.

What you would probably say though is "that was my Dad" although really, it wasn't (are we to believe your father lives in a little fliptop box that you keep in your pocket?) but for all practical purposes it was a trueful--although a completely different and seemingly contradictory--answer.

If you gave the first answer the person standing next to you might be mystified as to why you would tell a cellphone, that you already had in your hand, that you'll "see it sunday and take care til then".

the problem with your question (which really boils down to "was/is Jesus God) is that it could be answered yes or no and both answers would be right, as far as they go, but both would be incomplete and by themselves, misleading.

Yes because God is Truth, Jesus was an unobstructed conduit of God's truth, power, and being. He was/is a vehicle for the voice and power of God. So: If you hear him talking you're actually hearing God's words; "the words I speak are not my words, but the words of He who speaks through me"

When you see him do something you're actually seeing God do it "Of myself I can do nothing. the works that I do are not my works but the works of he who sent me.

So in the most meaningful sense and for all practical purposes----yes.

No because, as a man, he was a created being, just as the cellphone is a manufactured devise, it's only worth and it's true identity lies in it's function.

So from a strictly technical (materialistic) veiwpoint--no.

Yes again when you realise the distinction doesn't matter.

as far as "was Jesus there at the moment of creation"? God is outside of the limitation of time; Jesus didn't say "Before abraham was, I was." he said "Before Abraham was, I Am".
We're all still in the moment of creation.

 

The actual question was. Did Jesus make all things? As the New testament said He alone did. Or did the Father make all things alone and by Himself? Like the Old Testament said. Keep in mind, Jesus Christ existed, before He existed here on earth. So my question was, which one made all things?

 

In Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto Satan, "It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God"

When Jesus Christ was being tempted by Satan, he blatantly stated that he IS God.

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." (Acts 20:28)

Who purchased this with their own blood? Jesus Christ... However, the scriptures say that God did this. How can God do this when it was Jesus who died on the cross and shed his blood? Because Jesus IS God.



"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me" (Isaiah 43:10)

"I am He" - refers to 1 Timothy 3:16 which states that God APPEARED IN THE FLESH. Who was flesh? JESUS CHRIST.

To look at this Bible verse alone and yet, deny it, shows that one does not know the Lord, nor do they possess his Holy Spirit.


God humbled himself to become like one of his own creations... mankind... For what purpose?
1. To fulfill HIS word
2. To satisfy the law, paying for all who are guilty of sin (death on the cross)
3. To show us examples of how we are to live



You believe in the same trinity you preach against. Trinitarians believe that Jesus Christ was a separate person in the, "triangle" of the Godhead, and you believe the SAME thing. Jesus Christ and his Holy Spirit are manifestations of ONE GOD. God appeared to Moses as a burning bush. He appeared to the Israelites as a pillar cloud. God appeared, IN FLESH, to the world as Jesus Christ. You can deny it up and down until you turn blue in the face, but the scriptures state it as fact.



In Isaiah 40:20, God created earth. In Colossians 1:16-17, Jesus Created earth. In Isaiah 44:6, God is the First and the Last. In Revelation 22:13, Jesus is the First and the Last. I have already given the scriptures that state both God and Christ are shepherd, rock, salvation, almighty, so on and so forth. These scriptures show us that Jesus and God are ONE. In ALL of your claims, you try to make the Bible appear in contradiction of itself. You are the one who is sadly mistaken.



It is very sad to see someone so spiritually blinded that they cannot even accept the scripture written before their own eyes. The only one who is, "brain-dirty" is You.

 

Epiphany, GREAT ANSWER. This is what I have been trying to point out in my post. Jesus Christ mirrors everything the Father does. Jesus has His own personality, but He exist eternally as one member of the three member God Head. Only the Father could of claimed to of created the earth, and Jesus can claimed to of created the earth if the were the same God. That's why Jesus said, ''if you have seen me, you have seen the Father.'' Epiphany, you get an A+ for that.

 

as your signature portrays, you are a very sick witch!

you, as those jezebels before you, abuse, misuse and confuse
"the simplicity that is in The Messiah" for you know Him not!

all you know is "the god of this world", "the father of lies", "the
angel of light" and your own sensual perceptions of that which
is of The Spirit. of course the translations of The Testimonies
that "christianity" calls it's "bible" have been so perverted because
of the religious dogma of the translators and by the pagan greek
influences that one might think they have an "exuse" for their
ignorance:-((((((

yet, the "simplicity that is The Messiah" can not be hidden except
from the "eyes" of rebellious woe-men, religious clones, and
"braindirtyed" men and women who can't "see" how
"poor and needy" they are.

simply, The Messiah, "Whom The ONLY TRUE GOD raised from the
dead", testified: "I ascend to My GOD, and your GOD, to My Father,
and your Father".......period.......

The Messiah's GOD, "The ONLY TRUE GOD", is The GOD of His
Brethren, and The Messiah's Father, The Father of ALL(which
includes The Messiah, "the beginning of The Creation of The
ONLY TRUE GOD") is The Father of His Brethren.......period.......

so simple "a child could understand"....... a child of "The ONE and
ONLY TRUE GOD" that is.

and it is clear that you are the product of "the god of this world"
and your "jezebel" mother:-((((((

yet, while there is breath(spirit) there is hope!

hope that there would be those woe-men who would "see" what
"The ONLY TRUE GOD, Father of ALL" Created them to be.......

hope that they would take heed unto The Call of The ONLY TRUE GOD to:

"Come out of her, MY people......."

hope that such rebellious woe-men would "come out" of this world and
it's religious systems, especially the pagan harlot that calls herself
"christianity".

those women who do so will "set their affections on things above" and
then they will "see" what they were Created to be. and when they "see"
they will be set free from the jezebelic spirit that possesses them......

only then that they will know they are Loved.......

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francisco
http://ASpiritualJourney.Org

 

Wow, you guys are really going at it "hammer and thong". Francisco, you might want to tone it down a little bit as egos may get inflamed and closed mindedness may be the result. Your calling someone "wicked" will probably not endear you to the other person.

NA,

My own interpretation of the above is that Jesus was a a meditator who stopped his mind from thinking and became one with the One, the I AM. Even the I AM may have been from the Egyptian religion, which some say was why Jesus was sometimes called the Egyptian Priest. Did he go to Heliopolis after Joseph and Mary spirited him away into Egypt? Who really knows?

What I feel he was saying is that by having his mind stop he was not a part of time, time stops when there is no mind; when there is no time there is only God. The Jews took his words to mean something else, that he was equating himself equal to God, to their God. Jesus' understanding of God was totally different from them, even though they were using the same words. This is why Jesus said, "Don't you know that you are gods?," that any man could become one with God, therefore he would be God, his own manifestation (like a drop of water becoming one with the Ocean, the Ocean will be only what is seen, not the one drop).

Yes, we are still in the 7th Day, existance continues and God is existence itself. But Man is bound by time, by lifedeath, by duality because of the split in the mindheart. That split was caused by Man forming an ego which separated him from Nature. This was called 'Man eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, of Good and Evil'. God then 'decided' that Man would be kept from eating the fruit of the tree of Everlasting Life. But it was a natural consequence of man forming an ego, for now he was subject to death through fear, he became sentient. Supposedly meditation will cause the mind to stop thinking and with that stoppage Man eats of the fruit of the tree of Everlasting Life because he will come to know what he isn't and what he is, that it is the mind and body which will die but not his consciousness, what we call the Soul. Meditation is therefore an exercise to allow one to die with full consciousness. If there are desires which the soul still wishes to experience then that soul will be reborn into another body. If however it wishes to become one with God then it will merge into nothingness, what Buddhist call Nirvana, what Christians call the Seventh Heaven. This experience, while being alive, is called 'becoming a child again,' being reborn, the two becoming one, the fusion of the conscious with the subconscious, making the mind and heart One, becoming Enlightened.

As I said, this is my take, and hopefully it resonates with Francisco's idea of what he calls 'the Messiah'. To me, 'the Messiah' is 'the Witness'.

Om mani padme hum. (Even though I don't do mantras).

 

am not seeking to "endear" myself to another person.

you write of "close mindedness" and i would testify of "losing ones mind"!
you write of "body and soul", and i would testify of "body, soul and spirit"".

and though Our Father's Children will be liken unto HIM, there will always be
but ONE TRUE GOD, Father of ALL, and One True Messiah, He Who gave His
Life that i might have Life.

the valley seems very wide midst your "take" and my experience.

liken unto different continents or, at the least, different countries.

when one begins to "lose" their "braindirtyed" mind, it is then that a place
is prepared and made ready for "the mind that was in The Messiah".

yes, i would agree that The Messiah was "The Witness" and yet that
seems a bit weak for He was so much more.

simply, to me The Messiah's teachings, which were of Our Father, and The
Messiah's Life example revealed "The Way to The Truth of The Life".......

and "The Way to The Truth of The Life"?

simply, "Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done"!

and indeed, it's not a matter of mere words, but of death.......

for "I must die"!

yet to live but die seems an impossible task,
and so we need of Our Father, the impossible to ask.......

given a choice today who would you have order the life given you?

seems The Creator, "The ONLY TRUE GOD, Father of ALL", seems HE
would know what is best for HIS Children.......period.......

"Father, not my will, But THY Will Be Done"!

The Messiah lived that Truth, should not His Brethren?

peace, even as war(spiritual and carnal) rages....... francisco

 

Francisco,

It isn't a matter of seeking to endear yourself to another person, it is a matter of mutual respect, or 'treat others as you would like others to treat you,' or 'love your neighbour as you love yourself.'

Now, how does one do God's will? How can one be sure that they are doing God's will? You say that Christianity is a perversion of the Messiah's teachings, that the Catholic Church is Babylon. If that is all people know, then how can they know God's will and do the Christ's calling?

As a Buddhist, with a Christian and American Indian past or conditioning, I would have to say that ultimately, "I" have to take responsibility for my life and actions, to go with the flow of existence, Nature, Life. I cannot say 'someone outside me,' as I do not believe in a God that is a human idea.

In the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus says, "If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' tell them, 'It is motion and rest.'" In Zen it would be 'Motion in rest and rest in motion'. He also said "When you see one who was not born of a woman, bow down and worship. That is your Father." This to me says when one becomes Enlightened, when one is one with the One, when one isn't 'two' (the mind). Elsewhere he says, "I tell you the truth: the Father certaintly will not forgive the sin of the soul or the guilt of the flesh. For no one who has worn the flesh will be saved." (It is a play on words and has hidden meanings. It cannot be taken literally nor can be it contemplated since it relies on literalism.) Who then can be saved? No one will die with their ego, the ego will not be saved. Why then cling to the ego?