One of the many problems with heaven and hell...

Well, not all of them. But yes, the vast majority of them.

In all fairness, that sounds like a typical skeptic. We will never *know* so there must not be a reasonable answer. The point isn't whether it completely beyond all concievable doubt, but whether, in light of all the evidence, we can be reasonably certain that the our positions stand on solid ground. In this case, if the gospels came after the temple's destruction, then the books aren't propaganda (because *surely* that would have been mentioned). If the books came before, then you have predictive prophecy. It's really one or the other, but the idea of the gospels being some sort of propaganda piece doesn't fly in either case.

IMHO, we await the second advent. No antichrist, no tribulation, no asteroids... We are in the "time of Noah." Basically, life is going to go on as normal and then, one day, like a thief in the night, Jesus is going to be here, physically. And then we shall all be judged.

I think that you should read the stories as the style in which they are written. The story of Adam and Eve is true, though maybe not 100% factual. This is consistent with the literary style. There are many genres throughout the Bible. Don't read poetry as history nor a treaty as a figurative illustration. This guiding principle would prevent many poor interpretations if people would merely follow it.

 

First of all the UN or any other world body is about the business of not supporting the Bible. When the Jews became a nation, I can assure you the world was not consulting Scripture to see if they got the prophecies right. Hitler was not involved in killing off the Jews in Europe to encourage the remaining Jews to return to Israel. The Bible makes plain that near the end of time God would return the Jews to Israel for the purpose of angering the nations. God states that He was not returning the Jews for their sakes, God tells us the Jews polluted His name wherever they wandered. God is useing the Jews as bait. The day is soon to come when a great body of Islamic nations will rise up to destroy the State of Israel. The Bible tells us this army will be like a cloud to cover the land. When all is lost, and Israel is about to be destroyed, God will show His hand. Not only to the Islamic nations, but to the Jew and the world. It is called the day of the Lord.

 

In just recent years they have found the spot of the Red Sea crossing.
It was marked by two granit pillars. Divers have discovered the coarl incrusted remains of pharoahs army, and there is a movie coming out this year to show all the artifacts that divers have found. There is now a great amount of evidence that confirms this Biblical account. If the Bible is true, the evidence should be out there, and I believe it is.

 

I would have to say that he would be a God of unconditional love, in that case. It would signify an act of love in response to hate, and I agree with the tenet that hate cannot dispell hate, only love can dispell hate. If Jesus' salvation is a gift, as is often claimed, then why does anyone have to follow certain rules and do certain things to receive it? In my view, it is not a gift if something is required in order to receive it. It is a trade. If I were God, I would not require one to repent before I forgave them, I would forgive them unconditionally, but of course, I am not God.

 

You ask Christ into your heart so that His death on the cross will take away your sin. And that gift is free, the only reason you try and do good after this is to show God that you were sincere when you asked Him to be the Lord of your life. The works you do cannot save you, they only show God that you really do love Him. And by showing God your love, you make this world a better place.

 

Unfortunatley thats just a dream, because people now and throughout time have used god and religion as a way to do bad. Too many people don't follow what they preach, and you have alot of ignorance from it. I don't believe in god, and do not share the views of any one religion but I believe in doing good and spreading love. I just don't need a god or religion to tell me that, I choose to do it on my own. I can respect you and your beliefs but I cant respect people placing their beliefs on others forcefully and condeming others for thinkihng in a different way.

 

God knows all about those people, and that is why Jesus tells us that many would worship Him with their lips but their hearts are far from Him.

Tell me, do you think in the end you will be able to tell God you deserve to go to heaven because you lived a perfect life?

 

So the word 'free' must mean something much different to you than to me. I see it as 'on the house', 'don't worry about it', 'you owe me nothing', 'no strings attached' etc. Basically, what free is to me is something that is given unconditionally, with no expectation or requirement for anything in return. If anything is required in return, even a penny, then its cheap, but not free. You say the gift is free, then say 'when you asked him to be the Lord of your life.' Whoa. That sounds like you give your entire being, heart and soul to him, and then get the free gift? That is the opposite of free, to me. If an atheist follows the campers creed, to 'leave the campsite better than he found it', or if a Wiccan follows their 'An it harm none, do what thou wilt.', they make the world a better place, so I would think they are just as deserving of Jesus' gift. Moreover, if its free, then Hitler, Stalin, and the worst villians of all time should still get it unconditionally, no questions asked. That is free, is it not?

 

That's it.

 

To an extent, I don't like using the "free gift" terminology, because the gift comes at a very high cost (to God, anyway). However, I think that you have transposed the order of events, which is understandable and common.

You see, there comes a point in every Christian's life when they realize that deep down inside, they really don't cut the mustard. That we are all sinners that have inflicted pain and hurt on those around us. We realize that if God is really good and holy, that we truly do not deserve to be in His presence. Yet God has made a way at great personal expense so that we, in our sin and unworthiness, may yet be reconciled to Him. In many ways, we are all prodigals.

It is this realization that compels a Christian to give their all to God. It's a "Jesus gave it all, all to him I owe" kind of idea. It is very similar to how would we react to someone that saved us or our families from real and imminent danger. We would laud, praise, and thank them. We might try to pay them back, but at the very least, we would think highly of them and try not to smear them or hurt them in any way. This is very much like the Christian viewpoint. For Christians, Salvation comes first, dedication and submission come second. Not the other way around. Does that make sense?

The difference is one of attitude and realization that there is a rift between God and the individual. Further, the individual must recognize that they cannot heal the rift. Leaving the campsite better and harming none are both wonderful, however, the works that we do (or refrain from doing) are not sufficient.

As to it being freely available, then yes, Hitler et al. could be in heaven. I do not know, nor do I care to speculate.

 

I appreciate your reply Alsharad, and also feel similarly in that I do not know and neither would I seriously speculate. In your post, I feel you did a good job of clarifying to me your views on the subject. I believe there is an afterlife, but beyond that, I don't have an idea at all what any specific details of that are or what that entails. I wouldn't even go so far as to say that I will only know once I pass on, because I very well may not even then.

 

I think thats not God at all but another silly doctrine by man. God is love

 

it is not my logic that is twisted...its that you twist my words with your logic. try to follow through my logic without fear.