Open Challenge to the Faithfully Religious

However, we cannot ignore the fact, that since the beginning there've been people who worshiped the God who created everything. Who didn't believe those myths and didn't want to worship sun or constellations. And, try and ask the people of different religions today -- they will all tell you after all, that "yes, of course, there is ONE god the creater of everything". This is a fact and my personal experience

Can call these facts, OK.

Not accurate here! The Bible doesn't speak well of astrology, and other sources don't mention Moses or Jesus. You can't mix up together such controversial sources.


Well! Your facts have nothing to say against the idea of the Creator, who created things based on certain laws and principles, and who lovingly teaches us about these, for us to be happy("dictate", as you put it). The story of why we are now in conflict with some of the principles of "right and wrong" and what He has done to mend it is history of humankind. Just there are different renderings of it -- hence you have a good deal of stories telling of saviours born from virgins and suchlike stuff. Can the scientific approach help us to find the original source of these, one which would tell the true story? Such approach makes one think every story has its source, which will tell you the whole story and put the pieces together.
Much like in physics -- they study the results from experiments and look for the theory which would give a satisfying explanation to ALL the facts.

IMHO the Bible puts all the pieces together, telling why the saviour was needed, why born from a virgin and so on. Along with a bunch of good council, which make one happy and help in coping with life diffculties.

 

I DID come here to issue a challenge, so far you nor anyone else has taken me up. thats not my fault. If you feel belittled, maybe thats your logical mind stirring from its slumber. I have been only respectful to every poster here and have yet to 'flame' on these forums. I call your logic a big hole because (like you say) it is FAITH! Logic is making a reasonable descision based on what you observe. To this date I have never experienced anything holy or divine, therefore logic dictates it doesnt happen. Saying I cant disprove god is like saying your guilty until proven innocent. you cant disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster, doesnt mean he exists. you can believe all you want, you can tell me its a matter of faith, but never tell me you are a logical person because as long as you believe, you arent.

 

Frankly, I'd think again, as that is a wee bit of an absurdity.

Because you personally haven't experienced something does that mean it doesn't exist?

If I'd never been in love with a woman, I might think love doesn't exist.?

If you've never had a spiritual experience why assume such doesn't exist? That seems to me a very closed and un-adventurous attitude to take.

 

Im afraid I dont understand. You are correct, those last two are more of my own conclusions than total fact, but what does astrology have to do with it? You must understand the difference between astrology and astronomy. I do not believe that the star patterns dictate our fates, but ancient peoples did. You say other sources dont mention Jesus or Moses, BINGO!! to this date there have been only four recorded sightings of Christ found, each no more than a few sentences, and none specifically refering to him by name (remember that Christ actually means Annointed One). Lastly, why do you call your bible a "controversial source?" I was under the impression that it was the holy book of the Christian faith, and the Word of God. maybe you Christians arent as astute as I thought.

 

Fact: the truth or actual existence of something, as opposed to the supposition of something or a belief about something. got this from Encarta.

 

What about beliefs about facts? Most of us have those.

 

there are a wide variety of religions that dont conform to those guidelines, and it just shows your ignorance that you believe that. Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Odinism and a massive amount of regional faiths all have several gods. these people make up about 20% of the world, so dont try to marginalize them. Maybe you should crack open an encyclopedia before you make your next righteous statement.

 

ignorance =fear?

 

huh?

 

Don't you agree? People are afraid of what they don't know more than what they do know?

 

if you came just to issue a simple challenge, then why the outrageous attitude? i really don't understand why people come to this forum with a vendetta just to call every christian they see righteous. your attitude clearly shows you harbor some kind of superiority complex over christians, and no...that is not my logic mind stirring from slumber b/c you have awakened me to my own inferiority. give me a break. you obviously haven't thought things through



" To this date I have never experienced anything holy or divine, therefore logic dictates it doesnt happen."

im sorry...normally im not a copy and paster, but this is just too ridiculous to let slide....i've never experienced an earthquake...so therefor logic dictates that they don't happen. wouldn't you agree. im glad you hold yourself in such high esteem, but just b/c it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it didn't happen. i guess there never was anything before you were born.


what i really have a problem with though...is the fact that you say im not a logical person because i believe. this just proves my point that you came in here with some kind of vendetta against all christians. i really think a lot of people have given you some good ideas to think about. maybe you should open your mind a little.

 

oh, I thought you were referring to something I said. Yes i would say that is correct. I feel the main reason for the creation of the character god is a means of dealing with the greatest unknown, death. God represents our parents, a source of comfort.

 

Pretty useless to try to explain the existence of God to someone that has already made up their mind against it. It is also impossible to explain to someone an experience and for them to understand it, unless they have experienced it themselves. I don't blame anyone for not believing; I can see their point, when I look through their eyes with their views, especially if experience is non-existent.

Science is about skepticism, yet not many scientists are skeptical of science itself. So skepticism becomes more about holding onto the scientific indoctrination than it is to discover the truth.

It has less to do with fears of death, and more to do with fears of being wrong about something. If you understand that death isn't the end, as a personal fact, is that a way to shield you of your fears, or is it just the way it is because it is truth?

An endless stream of lives, for eternity, may be more terrifying than eternal non-existence.

 

That's what we should pray for.

 

Outrageous? I dont follow. if you dont believe you are righteous, than I dont see why you defend your religion so passionately. I think you misunderstand the word, it means to do what is right. I have a superiority complex over all people, actually, it doesnt matter what they believe. Im sure you have experienced an earthquake. have you seen footage of one, or the aftermath? I have. but if no one had ever told me about them, Id have no way of knowing they happen, and my logic would tell me theres no such thing. So far the only thought provoking ideas came from FedUpAmerican, who I feel doesnt agree with you. a vendetta is a blood feud. to my knowledge no Christian has killed my family, raped my wife, or burned my village. On the other hand, they did take a stance of neutrality during the Holocaust, deny condoms to AIDS ridden countries in Africa, and are responsible for more bloodshed than any other group in the history of time. and after all of that, you still cant prove anything. call it what you want, I do have something against a group that actively hates. Not Christians, but the Church.

 

please, dont waste your time.

 

My own Grandmothers village in France was burned by Christians in the first world war.
She was a Christian too.
That's a fact.

So were thay acting in accord with the message of Christ when they did it?
Somehow I don't think so.
To blame Christianity for such things is ridiculous.

 

Prayer isn't a waste of time. It has been proven that personal and dynamic discussions with yourself to be very beneficial to mental health and growth.

If prayer can actually affect another person, then that's something else entirely. Although, some things are just not empirically measurable.

 

It's more about atunement to what is beyond one's self.

Can it be of benefit to others? I choose to believe it can.

 

so, your saying religion exists because people are afraid to be wrong? theres no such thing as a personal fact, a fact is the same to every one, the only thing that changes is perspective. believing in the afterlife is a means of shielding onesself from the truth, that being that this is it. You get one life, and most people waste it, so they want to know that they get another chance. Guess what, you dont. Just so you know that I am 100% committed to nonbelief, I denounce the lord, all of the lords prophets, and may God damn me to Hell if I am wrong. I said that out loud too, just so you know.