Origins of Halloween

King of the Hill has got to be one of my favorote shows on TV. The best character, IMO, is Bobby.

 

Yeah, Bobby's the best.. especially when they go to visit Bills family in Louisianna.

"I need a windah seat. This flowah is wiltin'" - Bobby Hill

 

Halloween was a pagan holiday to celibrate the new harvest and the new moon and such. easter and christmas were also a pagan holidays untill the christians took them over and said it was the birth of jesus or whatnot.. Goddess bless the pagans

 

Hey Gang.. John Kerry attended All Souls Day this morning .. at a Christian Church.
Wierd eh!
Yep and it turns out the evening before (Oct 31st) is called 'All Hallowed Eve'.

Maybe you should phone John Kerry and tell him that he did not, in fact, celebrate a Christian Holiday.
No.
He actually attended a Pagan holiday that was accidently in a Christian Church!

 

The fact is that whoever took over the holiday and turned it into something it's not. It's not to honor god or whatever they say, it's to celebrate the end of the year and have a feast. the end.

 

MagicMedicine. You are incorrect Sir.

Please re-read the information given earlier.
Thanks.

 

ok sir

 

This thread is about the origins of halloween being pagan. Not about what halloween is now. So going on and on trying to tell us it is christian doesn't really matter according to the topic of this thread.

I'm going to have to agree with whoever called you illiterate, even if they couldn't spell it right.

 

The ones instituting Halloween (coincidently in the same time as Samhain) were, according to you purposely making a point of disassociating it with Samhain and delibertately reducing and eliminating all the 'Paganism' from their new celebration.

In that sense it becomes impossible to use the word 'Origins' as if one developed from the other.

I think we can all agree that Halloween is now replaced with Snickers Corporation day and New Line Cinema Horror Movie Release weekend.

OH. and that Bobby Hill is the best thing ever.

 

I found this on the net. Christians took "Lucifer" and made then their own

The name Lucifer has been closely associated with various pagan gods including the planet Venus, Apollo and Pan. Venus of course is the morning star which "brings light." Pan was the god who looked like a goat and who entered the fields where peasants worked, frightening them with his presence. This is where the word "panic" originates.
Scripture tells us that pagan idolatry is, in fact, the worship of demons (Deuteronomy 32:17; Psalm 106:36-37; I Corinthians 10:20). The gods of the Romans were not new. They were simply the same ancient gods of earlier peoples – the Sumerians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Canaanites, Persians and the Greeks. With the introduction into new cultures, these gods were renamed and new, culturally relevant, stories were attached to their mythology. In ancient times, the stars and planets were thought to be celestial beings to whom one must sacrifice to be blessed. The planet later known as Venus had been worshipped from very early times. She was always a "light-bringer" of some sort.

 

That is so far off from the truth (except the part about Bobby Hill). Like I said before, this thread was about the origins of halloween. Not what it is today. Do a google search on the origins of halloween, or go talk to a history or religious professor. One did definitely devolop from the other, and the origins of halloween are rooted in paganism.

And the catholic church didn't "coincidently" move their celebration of the dead from May to November. If you had bothered reading the plethera of sources to you given about the origins of our current day celebration of halloween, it will be clear that it was no coincidence.

I don't understand why you continue to suggest otherwise when it is simple historical fact.

1. de·ni·al (d-nl) n.

-A refusal to grant the truth of a statement or allegation;

-A refusal to accept or believe something, such as a doctrine or belief.

-Psychology. An unconscious defense mechanism characterized by refusal to acknowledge painful realities, thoughts, or feelings.

 

You are the most narrow-minded Denier I have ever met.
Honestly.

YOU specifically state that a DIFFERENT celebration was deliberately instituted on OCT31st.
YOU insist that this New Celebration was deliberately designed to OPPOSE and REMOVE all pagan ORIGINS.

THen in the exact same post you completely contradict yourself and INSIST that Halloween IS originated from Samhain.

You are an absolute moron and full fledged hypocrite if Ive ever seen one.

The difference between you and me on this - I have CLEARLY explained exactly where, why and how you are completely and psychotically CONTRADICTING yourself in no uncertain terms.

Please pick one OR the other so we can stop watching you bare-face contradict yourself by stating two different assertions.

 

Brocktoon does that all the time, I have learned to accept that he does not let virtually universally agreed and proven facts get in the way of his opinions.

 

Yes but you are a bigger walking contradiction than her so....

BlackGuard - do you honestly believe that a distinct celebration which was purposely designed to oppose another - can ALSO be said to be 'originated' from that celebration?

If yes - then how does the word 'Origins' have any real meaning at all anyway?
Why given something different a different name if names mean nothing?

I predict great problems in your future considering your mushy mislogic and misdirected conventions.

 

Decided to convert? thats a laugh.
Most all of the pagans that did not convert were outcasts, or else killed for their beliefs. I don't blame the majority of them for wanting to live in peace.
Luckily, they did not have to change many rituals, since most of them were filled with pagan symbolism.

I agree about their enthusiasm, which they brought with them, not vice versa.

 

So you all agree that Pagans were able to be 'forced' to change their beliefs.

If that is the case then surely their Pagan beliefs were also held 'because they were told to' and really
.. any belief system so weak and feeble that 'a new holiday' makes them change their minds - then its a pathetic belief anyway.

Of course, you would never want to admit that ancient Celts and Britons could have possibly examined the evidence and chose to change their minds.

No no.. they must have been weak minded and 'tricked' LOL

Give me a break.

Hey.. The UK could convert to Paganism now if they wanted.. dont see that happening.
Lots converting to Apathy though!

Must be because Athiesm is 'forcing them' lol?

 

This is getting stupid. Consult a historian if you aren't going to believe sources such as the encyclopedia, the history channel, or any university or christian sources.

At least I have offered plenty of sources to back up what I am posting in this thread. Where are your sources, Brocktoon?

 

SeraMichelle.. How could I possibly verify what you are saying... I dont even know what (or which) you are asserting?

Here is my 'Backup':

My hometown has approx 30 different Christian Churches.
They are not all full by any means but you can find a few thousand Christians on any given Sunday.

About 5 minutes walk away.. you find a Pictish Ceremonial site;
Hmmm dont see any locals attending.
Another 5 minutes away is an ancient Celtic 'Worship' site;
Hmmm dont see a lot of members there?

btw.. Its been quite a few centuries since any of these 'diabolical monks' were forcing anyone in my community to 'believe or die' or even 'act Christian or be shamed'.

Yet.. oddly enough the Christians seem pretty darn convinced they know why they are Christians .. and choose to remain so.

Im sure they would all be 'thrilled' to have you show up on Sunday and 'explain' to them how they were fooled and now 'you' are going to 'help them' by 'liberating' them from this horrible Christianity they were tricked, bullied and 'forced' into.

That would be Classic!

 

This thread isn't about who are christians and why, or about how and why the pagans converted. It is about the origins of halloween being pagan, and turning christian when the catholic church moved their day of the dead from may to it's current time in order to more easily convert pagans.

I am not trying to sway anyone from christianity, but don't you think it is wise to understand the roots and history of one's own religion?

If it makes you lose faith in christianity, that's your perogative. But this thread wasn't created to discuss who are christians and why. It is simply to discuss and bring to light the origins of our present-day halloween. Which happen to be pagan.

Instead of taking a defensive stance (for no reason) why don't you process the information you obviously had never learned before, and make a decision for yourself of how it impacts your faith. It may, it may not. That's a personal thing, and something I couldn't decide for you if I tried. But don't make pointless assumptions. I wasn't trying to turn anyone against christianity. I was presenting historical fact for people to ponder and discuss.

If you go through my posts you will find that I never said pagans were forced to become christian, or that they are stupid for it, or christians shouldn't believe their religion, they are still coersing pagan conversion, or anything like that. All those implications came from you. I simply presented the facts, gave some of my thought, and disputed your errors.

My assertations throughout this thread have been very clear, it is your's that are illogical, assumptive, and completely off the point.

I'm sure, however, you will pick through my post and find some moot point to argue, but I am done beating the dead horse.

 

So you are asserting that a new and distinct Celebration was instituted on Oct 31st which was opposed (philosophicaly at least) to Samhain.

OR??

You are asserting that Samhain developed into All Hallows Eve?

Dont keep whining about being a 'victim' or saying how 'mean' I am for not agreeing with you -

Pick one!?