There must be some discussion in your own words prior to citing news articles. This copy and paste isn't permitted without your own discussion is not permitted.
At times like this I become speechless like Balbus... It is ALL so painfully obvious... My thoughts are with the families of the victims. What a horrible way to lose someone you love, it may take them years or a lifetime to recover from this.
Aeianne Thank you for reminding me of the politics forum guideline that I wrote way back in 2007 but sorry to correct you but they say – As often stated this is not a bulletin board it is a place to debate politics. For that reason cut and pasted articles or links [including video] should be used sparingly and more as a way to highlight a persons viewpoint rather than as a replacement for a persons viewpoint. People that consistently post articles or links without comment may find their posts removed. There is no Must or Not Permitted it’s not a strict and draconian rule it’s more of a guideline that needs understanding and tact in its application or at least that’s what I meant when I wrote it. * Anyway I was actually doing this here on purpose. There are not that many new people here these days, but for those like you that are new to the forum, I’d say that I’m rather well known for expressing my views on this subject and there are some people that get rather excited when I contribute personally to such a thread - to try and lessen that problem I purposely held off contributing my own views until the thread had matured a little (even then there was a small problem). You’ll be happy to know that now the thread has taken off I’ll be contributing in person. Love Balbus
Interestingly the was a new gun control pressure group launched just last Friday this is the Veterans Coalition for Common Sense http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/10/david-petraeus-mark-kelly-reduce-gun-violence-military-veterans-launch-initiative As the name suggests it seems to be aimed at getting ex-military on side, and the people in it so far don’t seem like the usual gun control crowd. Former CIA director David Petraeus, retired US army Gen Stanley McChrystal and former NSA director Michael Hayden. But I’m not sure what they are advocating yet.
6 As Karen says we have covered that before even with you for example to quote you directly from a previous thread with my reply – So are you saying that the situation would have been better if the terrorist had easy access to guns like in the US rather than taking the greater risk of having to smuggle them in from outside the EU (one load of guns was stopped on its way to Paris). * Thing is it is a lot harder to get hold of a gun in Europe and especially after Paris as police forces have made it even more of a priority. There are still shootings in Europe they are just a lot fewer than in the US. I‘ll give an example someone in the UK decided to ‘act’ in the name of radical Islam and went along to a crowded rail station but the only weapon he had was a knife and while three people were injured one badly no one died and other people ‘pelted the perpetrator with bottles’ and herded him keeping him there until the police arrived and tasered him (UK police don't normally carry guns). The perpetrator had a history of mental illness but that doesn’t mean that if he’d been in the US he couldn't have easily gained access to a gun.
OK in the reaction to Orlando we seem to have an idea as to the Presidential candidate’s ideas on gun crime. Trump- he seems to be going with opposing gun control and getting the NRA to help him decide policy in that area. Hillary – is going with favouring some tweaks of the system (at least banning military system assault weapons) but nothing radical. Why is the gun lobby so powerful in the US, I mean they have no real rational or reasonable arguments against prudent gun control and every massacre highlights just how dumb the pro-gun stance is, what is going on in the mind of so many Americans?
It isnt hard to figure out the root motivation - if you want to understand anything about America just follow the money trail. The arms industry makes a lot of money from perpetuating this idea that guns are the American way - particularly after tragedies like this. Why so many americans fall for it, I have no idea.
Mel Oh I agree a hell of a lot of money is spent by gun makes on opposing gun control, but their pro-gun arguments are the same crap as we've all seen already, they just come with higher production values. But that is the question I keep asking – why are so many convinced by the manufactures propaganda even when they are unable to defend those views from criticism?
6 Is it possible for - Considered and Calm I mean what you say isn’t evidence of directly giving to known terror groups and drug cartels [edit] Oh and are you going to answer the gun control question?
At the very least, they're for bringing back the assault weapons ban. For years, sheriffs and police chiefs have been advocating bans on various high powered military weapons. They're losing increasing numbers of officers when they show up at crime scenes and find that the criminals have better weapons than they have, often able to penetrate bullet-proof vests. Both groups have seen modern urban warfare, and they don't want to see it spread. One puzzling thing about it is the amount of money in play. If you look at lists of major industries in America, ranked by annual sales or profit, the manufacturers of ordinary guns (not military weapons systems) don't rank very high. Apparently, a high percentage of the purchase price of each gun must be going into NRA lobbying. Gun sales spike every time there's an event, so every time we get shown that our current policies are not working, the NRA gets stronger. They get more cash for propaganda to convince the easily led that the evil progressives and liberals are going to someday take away their hunting rifles and the .38 revolver they keep in the nightstand drawer for self-defense. People have become so indoctrinated that they repeat NRA rhetoric like religious dogma, with great reverence.
Americans are a barbaric lot, scared and clinging to their security (guns) in these crazy times. We don't have anyone that is a role model for decency and good... we have lying politicians, greedy corporations, and a vast silent majority too self-involved to pay attention to the real issues... I cried when I had to move back to the USA... life in Europe was so peaceful, safe and civilized. Here in California we have a police state with surveillance of everything in the name of security, and guns flying out the doors of gun shops and ammo flowing like water from the gun shows... Just recently the kid down the block felt compelled to show off his new piece... he is so scared that someone is going to mess with him that he thinks carrying a gun will make him safer. Next thing I knew he was in a gang wearing red shirts. Probably believes his gang will keep him safe.
Here are articles if people want to know more about NRA funding How The Gun Industry Funnels Tens Of Millions Of Dollars To The NRA http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1?IR=T Does the NRA Represent Gun Manufacturers or Gun Owners? http://www.thenation.com/article/does-nra-represent-gun-manufacturers-or-gun-owners/ * Karen I agree – yes there is a lot of of propaganda but 99.9% of it seems to be bullshit that even the pro-gun supporters can’t defend in any rational way and I just wonder why they then carry on holding them?
Chris Yes fear is part of the equation but the thing is that pro-gun people don’t seem to want to try and tackle the causes of their fear; they just seem to want to remain frightened but clutching a gun. It seems like an irrational stance and counterproductive in that it does nothing to lessen the daily gun related deaths or the too frequent massacres like in Orlando
I could have sworn that Skip told me the reason we include some of our own words, anywhere on Hip Forums, was to avoid some sort of legal issues when using another's work. I think that's a good practice for all of Hip Forums but if you have reasons for doing things differently in your section, please pardon me.
For a long time, the official positions of the NRA have not matched up very well will opinion polls taken from its ordinary members. Note that the dollar figures the NRA is playing with are measured in the tens of millions, not the hundreds of billions floating around in the defense industry (Boeing, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, etc.). The NRA is very efficient at leveraging what it's got. Maybe they're watching so much Fox News (+Alex Jones, Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, etc.) that they're only vaguely aware of other points of view, which they hear described only in outrageously negative ways. There's a lot of peer pressure in redneck country too.
Because they think "because it is my constitutional right" is impenetrable defense against criticism . I have been saying for a long time the problem is not necessarily guns, but the fact that America has a very strong gun culture and the people who are part of this culture are very proud of it. They don't care about the criticisms and opinions of people who are not part of the culture.
It really has changed though. Many years ago, I remember hearing my grandfather, my dad, and my uncles talking to each other about guns. I don't recall them having any interest in the high powered military stuff. They weren't unusual people for that time and place. They also didn't talk about conspiracy theories or overthrowing the government or Thomas Jefferson's "second amendment solutions" to political issues. That's all relatively new. Obama is speaking right now about the importance of not playing into the goals of ISIS by seeing the current situation as a war with Islam, reminding us that their membership is something like 1% of all Muslims, most of which have no respect for ISIS.
I've been thinking about this ever since I read it. Bottom line is, as a group, we're just not nice people. It's very sad. For most Americans, it's easy to go through a whole day without encountering anybody who cares whether you live or die. We get whatever we have in life through trying to gain some sort of advantage over other people, through business strategies, politics, or violence. Everybody is a potential enemy. We're giving in to the darkest, most cynical side of human nature. This is no way to live.
