Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth

So you have a narrow mind, interesting.

 

And this comment is why I say you do not recognize god's children as they are.
We had a lengthy discussion about this. You are weighing me against your beliefs in the bible and determine that I cannot possibly be of the holy spirit. However, beliefs only argue with other beliefs, never with the truth. The truth need not be argued for or against as it is self evident. I pointed out to you that this is exactly what the scribes and pharisees did, they neither go in themselves, devoid of personal recognition, nor do they allow others to enter, they were so concerned with their veneration of the letters that they couldn't see the real thing. If you say I do not have the holy spirit based on your beliefs about the bible, then your belief is your measure of me, but that does not alter my relationship with god.

As to truth being self evident, remember when jesus asked peter who do you, say that I am, not what others say, but you.

Before you say I am accusing you understand that the holy spirit teaches what is the same and what is different, and does not render verdict of guilty or not guilty, but true or false. My purpose is to help remove those barriers we have built against love.

 

How do you get narrow mind from narrow gate. Narrow minded is a phrase denoting an inability to consider the evidence and make choices accordingly.
"Narrow gate" as I said in this instance, denotes narrow focus on the truth.

 

As to pagan origins of christ myth, all of our religion and all of our science came from pagan peoples looking at the night sky. We have unfolded in awareness just like children grow.

 

It's not a problem. Sometimes more than one can come up with the same response

 

I have no trouble recognizing God's children. Just as I have no trouble recognizing who your spirit buddy is.

In fact only discussion has been this, you want others to discard the Bible for what your spirit buddy says and yet have no proof that your spirit buddy is in fact the Holy Spirit.

If so why do you seem to have such difficultly in recognizing the truth?

Actually what the Scribes and Pharisees were overstepping the Law of God with their traditions, much like you do with your beliefs and the beliefs of your spirit buddy, that often directly contradict the Scriptures.

I say you do not have the Holy spirit based on what the Bible says, because what you say ofttimes directly contradicts what the Bible says.

That wasn't about the truth being self evident, obviously there were many who did not see this self evident truth, so Jesus was asking Peter what he believed.

So why is it then when I point out to you what the Holy Spirit says, you call it judging?

So you say but interestingly the Bible says; However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8) So it wouldn't be very loving to teach others what is contradictory to what the Bible says.

It would be interesting if you could show any evidence that the things you believe were also believed by the early "Christians", you know the ones the ones I'm talking about, the ones that wrote that sin exists or that Jesus was a sacrifice, that sort of thing.

 

I get it from your trying to apply the Scripture to something it is not talking about.

 

So Christianity just kind of evolved from pagan origins and I suppose your spirit buddy told you this.

And you wonder why I keep telling you that your spirit buddy is not the Holy Spirit and it is misleading you.

 

I said as they are. I asked for the instruction of the holy spirit in christs name and what god gives is truly given.

And who is that?

 

I know what you said and as I said, I have no trouble recognizing God's Children.

You and I both know it's not the Holy Spirit, so what does that leave?

 

God's children are all of the children god created, each and every one and not a sparrow falls that god does not know it. If you are in the business judging gods children as unworthy, i. e., you stating that I cannot have the holy spirit then you need to change affiliations, slanderer.

You are mistaken, I am taught by the holy spirit.

Who do you say it is?

You know waterbrother it is said that the only unforgivable sin is blaspheme against the holy spirit. The only error in perception that can doom us is not recognizing the holy spirit.

He who does not gather, scatters.

 

God didn't create man as man is after Adam and Eve. To become a child of God is to become adopted because son's of man are all orphans.

 

I think def zeppelin did a pretty good job of answering this.

As for "slanderer", that sounds a lot like a judgement to me.

Yeah and "As to pagan origins of christ myth, all of our religion and all of our science came from pagan peoples looking at the night sky. We have unfolded in awareness just like children grow." sounds so much like what someone who is taught by the Holy Spirit would say?

The entire Bible was written by those inspired by the real Holy Spirit and what they wrote does not in any way agree with this statement by you. So the question remains who is teaching you?

Well, who is it that keeps contradicting God?

Well, you do keep contradicting the Scriptures which were written under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

That's talking about gathering to God, not gathering to yourself and your teachings.

 

So you believe, but god created man in his own image and likeness, male and female, creative principle. The children of god were judged at creation, good very good, and god has never changed his mind. As waterbrother says "god cannot lie.

It is said he was a liar from the beginning. In the story he told them they were not like god, lie number one, he told them if they had the knowledge of good and evil, then they would be like god, lie number two. If indeed we are as god created us, then all this business about the fall of man is a child's nightmare.
The children of god are suffering from a nightmare of their own making because they decided to be judges of good and evil. The world you see that looks like a mixture of light and dark is simply the miscreant use of the creative power that god endowed us with. We fashion the world we see through our descriptions of it, as in god said, let there be light and there was light. If you say, endowed with gods power, call it evil, then the world will appear to you consistent with your claim. We did not fall from grace, we insisted then and now, that we didn't have any.

The eye is the lamp of the body, if the eye be sound, the whole body will be full of light, not a mixture of light and dark. We suffer from our own judgements of ourselves and our brothers, we are redeemed by the judgement of god. The Last Judgement is the last one man makes against himself. This is why jesus came to tell it is not true that you are not worthy of your fathers love and you will begin to realize this is true as you learn the meaning of forgiveness and it's role in atonement.

We are all created in the same breath, not successively over time and that gathering is the sonship. You are adam and eve. We are all the same god the creator stuff.

Now if the light in you be darkness, if the truth to you is that we are fallen into shadow, then how great the darkness.

 

It is true, you do slander me by saying I am not of the holy spirit and as well you slander the holy spirit. You certainly have not done this for the love of god. Again, the holy spirit teaches what is the same and what is different. You do not tell the truth about me, therefore that is called a slander, ergo "slanderer". Now this would cause me great consternation if I were not assured by our father in heaven that you have a log in your eye.

You do not recognize the holy spirit, you think the holy spirit is the bible, it is not.

Really, isn't it written that " when I was a child, I played with children's toys, but when I became a man . . . ? I answered your question.

God cannot be contradicted. Gods word is the authority. Are you accusing me of contradicting god?

It is talking about gathering together the sonship of god.

 

It's funny how, when it will help an argument, the bible is the inerrant word of God, but when a contradiction or ungodly teaching is pointed out, it stops being the inerrant word of God and becomes the very errant word of man. One moment it IS the word of God, the next it was "inspired by God" as if the word inspired nullifies the contradiction of something simultaneously being always right and sometimes wrong and sometimes even both.

 

Interestingly, part of what made man like God was free will and would allow them to decide for themselves to remain God's Children or not. The fault was not in the how man was created but in the decision they made.

So from that point onward, God's word is a "child's nightmare", well once again you show that your spirit buddy can't possibly be the Holy Spirit.

So all the writers of the Bible, who were inspired of God, were suffering from a nightmare and were unable to perceive reality correctly, except for you that is.

Then why is it called Jehovah's Judgement Day and not just the Last Judgement?

No, Adam was created and Eve was made from him and the rest of us were not created by God but are the descendents of the created Adam and Eve.

It is the truth that will set you free, not platitudes cobbled together from fragments of Scriptures taken out of context.

 

Slander? Once again is that Judgement I hear?

In actually I have said nothing against you accept that you are mislead by your spirit buddy and so it wouldn't be so much slander against you as it is against your spirit buddy and then only if it wasn't true.

I love God and his only son Jesus, I also love God's word the Bible. Thus when when someone contradicts God's Word, it only loving to point that out. It is loving to God, it is loving to the one who has misspoke and it is loving to those who might have been mislead by it.

Once again you tell this lie, even though I have told you several times that is not what I believe. So, once again, I do not think the Bible is the Holy Spirit.

:smilielol5: Sorry, you took this Scripture so far out of context that it's getting frequent flier miles.

So the question remains who is teaching you?

Yep or at least your spirit buddy is misleading you to.

Really? Here are the two places the idea is found; Luke 11:23; Luke 11:23, so you can read them in context. Perhaps then you can show were it says they are talking about "gathering together the sonship of god".

 

God did not want to create puppet beings so he gave Adam and Eve free will and they chose to give up their perfection.

It was Satan that told them much of these things and not God so it was Satan doing the lying and not God.

God judges these things not me but I will point out from my study of God's word what these differences are. I do not see God's world as evil but there are many things that are indeed evil in this age.

This consistence is not what the Bible notes so I don't believe that mankind continued to be in God's image. Diseases, famines, death, suffer, criminality are none of the things God has created but is and has been a part of mankind.

Adoption is a free offer and anyone truly wanting it will receive it. Rm 8:22-23: (And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children, including the new bodies he has promised us.)

What would we need with new bodies if the bodies we have are already perfect? Why would a perfect God who has created us perfectly ever do this unless something has caused mankind to become contrary to how God intended?

If mankind continued to remain children of God then adoption would be unnecessary. A child that already has their parent doesn't need to be adopted but an orphan would. That implies mankind were turned into orphans in need of their parents whichever they chose.

That is true

Btw the other part doesn't seem to be part of Biblical scripture.

 

Ah, but this thread is not referring to the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ, but rather, to the universal church of Constantine
Not only did the apostles not teach the false doctrine of the trinity, but neither did they teach the so-called unbiblical immaculate conception, of Jesus and his mother Mary.

In the days of the Apostle Paul who in 1st Timothy 1: 1; says: “From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of “GOD OUR SAVIOUR’ and Christ Jesus ‘OUR HOPE.’” The people were already beginning to fall away from the truth, and following another gospel that was not taught by the word of God or the apostles.

In his 2nd letter to the Corinthians 11: 4; Paul says, “You gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit (The Lie) and a gospel completely different from the spirit (Of Truth) and the gospel you received from us.”

Then in Galatians 1: 6; Paul says again, “I am surprised at you! In no time at all you are deserting the truth and are accepting another gospel.

So, What was that other gospel that was leading the people away from the truth and away from the Jesus as preached by the Apostles, to another false Jesus?

That gospel was the word of the anti-christ, that refused to acknowledge that Jesus had come as a human being, and instead, they believed that he was a spirit, who, like some Hologram, would appear and disappear at will.

Even in the later days of John, the false teaching that Jesus was not of the seed of Adam from which every human being who has, or ever will walk this earth, has descended, and had not come as a human being, but as a spiritual being, was already beginning to rear its ugly head, and concerning that evolving falsehood, John had this to say.

1st letter of John 4:1-3; “My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the spirit, (My words are spirit) but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere. This is how you will be able to know if it is Gods spirit/word: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus came as a human being has the spirit who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus does not have the spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the enemy of the anointed one, the Anti-christ etc.”

2nd letter of John verses 7-10;.“Many deceivers have gone out all over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an enemy of Christ.”

We all know where to find the teaching of the anti-christ that Jesus was not a true human being, which has been spread ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Over the centuries the false teaching of the anti-christ continued to evolve, as the followers of the anti-christ became more enlightened and harder to deceive. In Alexandria, by the second century, Docetism, the concept that Jesus had existed as a spirit rather than a human being, had all but theoretically been stamped out.

But still, there persisted the belief that their false Jesus, although seen as a sort of human being, did not have our normal bodily needs, such as eating, drinking and having to go to the toilet, and Clement the bishop of Alexandria, wrote: “It would be ridiculous to imagine that the redeemer, in order to exist, had the usual needs of man. He only took food and ate it in order that we should not teach about him in a Docetic fashion.” Satan must have had some trouble trying to tempt this false Jesus of theirs into turning stones into bread.

Their Jesus was not the Jesus as taught by the apostles, but that other Jesus, taught by the Anti-Christ, who unlike we mere HUMAN BEINGS, did not need to eat, drink, or go to the toilet, as was taught by one of the great teachers that the members of the universal church, love to use as one of their authorities when trying to defend one of their their false doctrines.

Saint Clement of Alexandria, who was a saint in the Martyrology of the Roman universal church, in support of the great lie, speaks of the time that some imaginary midwife, who was supposed to be at the birth of Jesus, told some woman by the name Salome, that the mother was still a virgin after the birth and that her hymen was still intact, and that this supposed Salome, stuck her finger into the mother’s vagina to check, and her hand immediately withered up, but the baby Jesus reached out and touched her hand and healed it.

Clement was a saint in the universal church, which was established by King Constantine, from a rag-tag group of insult hurling religious bodies, who called themselves christians. Eventually, sick to the stomach with their constant quarreling and abuse toward each other, Constantine summond all the leaders of those groups to the first ever "World Council of churches," where, in 325 AD, some 300 years after the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ had been firmly established in Jerusalem, the non-christian, and almost certainly theologically illiterate Constantine, established his universal church, which has nothing to do with the Jesus as taught by the apostles.

Down to the 17th century Clement was venerated as a saint. His name was to be found in the Martyrologies, and his feast fell on December 4. But when the Roman Martyrology was revised by Clement VIII (Pope from 1592 to 1605), his name was dropped from the calendar on the advice of his confessor, Cardinal Baronius. Pope Benedict XIV in 1748 maintained his predecessor's decision on the grounds that Clement's life was little-known; that he had never obtained public cultus in the Church; and that some of his doctrines were, if not erroneous, at least highly suspect.

"ERRONEOUS--HIGHLY SUSPECT," matey, you can say that again----and again ------- and again. But by then the falsehood was firmly established and its seeds had taken root in all the nations of the world. The Lord now has need of some good gardeners, to help root out those noxious weeds.