Papa John Is Mad About Obama Care

We all pay.
I never want to be saddled with a debt of £50-60 thousand - even I was insured - simply because I didn't meet some criteria

As far as healthcare is concerned - no. That's the difference between you and I.

 

Oh, but it's all dandy to drop a $20,000 + debt unto our children and grandchildren? Many of whom, are yet to be born??

Your logic contradicts itself. You want to force everyone to pay for something, that not everyone needs. So you want to increase the debt for EVERYONE, so we don't raise the debt of a few!? It doesn't make sense.

I don't want to pay for something I already have.

Would it be "fair," by liberals logic, to force everyone to buy an extra home, so NO ONE goes homeless?? Or perhaps only people who make more than $100,000 per year?

Either way, the Liberal agenda is a big lie. ObamaCare is going to cost everyone money, but will only benefit a select few. (Which I personally believe is only special interest groups, and Obama's political career.) The POOR individuals are facing a bigger tax burden due to this bill, and very doubtfully, healthcare which matches the price.

 

Only by the most nebulous definition of "pay".
Factually speaking, "we all consume", and the costs of consumption when paid for are not always borne by the consumer.

Debt is avoidable by living within the means you have available.
I'm finding it difficult to make some rational sense of how you wish "even I was insured - simply because I didn't meet some criteria" to be interpreted.

And quite a difference it is.

 

StpLSD25

I don't mind paying tax for things I have used in the past (being born) might need in the future (suffering a massive heart attack) but don't need at the moment (I'm quite healthy).
Anything could happen at any point.
I know I will never have to endure 'pre-existing medical conditions' or/and a massive bill I can't afford - simply because I'm ill.

It's true, I could spend 30-40 years paying into a system I don't need - but what do the Insurance companies do, how do you think they cover their costs, and how do you think some care is payed for?
Then you have to pay again for medicaid/medicare etc.

What do you want? To pay nothing into 'the pot' then pay thousands upon thousands if you are ill/need treatment?

We don't pay income tax until we earn over approx £9000. You have 6 brackets we have 3-4. You seem to pay a lot more tax on a lot less money than here. So yes, more than likely because there are no doubt going to be a myriad of caveats and a myriad of hoops to jump through - and insurance isn't going anywhere - the poor will suffer. You even have to fill out your own tax forms - lol.

I've never quite worked out what people like you want : /

 

I don't have debt.
What has personal debt got to do with paying for healthcare?

'...even if I was insured - simply because I..."

(missed 'if' out)

Healthcare in the U.K seems very easy and straightforward - which I like.
Healthcare in the U.S seems highly complicated and beset by uncertainties - hence not potentially having to pay a massive medical bill.
I'll never have to do that here.

 

Individual (personal) healthcare or a contagious epidemic?

Recognize the fact that Insurance companies remain in business only by remaining solvent, while government can amass debts to the point that their fiat currencies become worthless and unaccepted, allowing them to provide the illusion of prosperity with the burden left for future generations to contend with. Insurance companies have to make economically reasonable and rational decisions, dealing with reality, while only government can defer doing the same by dealing with the emotions and accumulating debt.

So there is no necessity to diminish anyones freedoms, those who like socialized health care can choose life in the U.K. or Massachusetts, and those who wish to remain free in making their own health care choices and bearing the associated costs can choose to live elsewhere in the U.S.

 

Individual

You would hope that an Insurance company never goes bankrupt, and you would hope they made economically reasonable and rational decisions, dealing with reality.
And obviously making a profit, too.
It's also perfectly reasonable to wish to remain free in making your own health care choices (we sort of can, too) and bearing the associated costs - if you can afford to.
The point is, you are doing that, as well paying for others via your income tax, as well potentially running up costs you can't afford, and potentially dealing with the insurance company going bankrupt (it happens).
Ignoring the fact some people can't afford Insurance, but have to still pay tax (paying for others) while not getting the same care as others.

At the end of the day, I never want to get home and find a bill for healthcare in my letterbox.

 

While it is true that all are not receiving the same care as others, care is not being denied anyone and the costs of the care given, while it may not be as great as that received by those who are paying, is already being provided by those who have chosen to pay directly or have chosen to pay by purchasing insurance. So some are getting less care than they pay for so that others can get get care for free or at much less cost.

 

I imagine that is fairly accurate to how it is. How about we all get the same level of care regardless of how much we contribute, and those that wish to have more can pay for it. What would happen if you lost your job, got hit by a car, and then found out you had cancer?

 

Considering ALL the functions and services being provided by government, those you refer to as being unable to afford insurance while still paying taxes, are most likely benefiting overall as the taxes they are paying is much less than the total costs of the functions and services to which they are benefiting from.

 

That's available right now, we can move to the U.K., but what you would like to provide can only be accomplished by the use of force.

I deal with each situation as it arises, and make do with the best my means avail to me.

 

all that i will say about this is i like the idea of means avail, over force.
i do think there should be a low bar minimum in health care but when the bottom line is giving me options rather than laws that i never got a vote on....lets just say the choice is easy.

 

hey its life, liberty, and the pursuit of hapliness* everyone forgets tye asterisk to the footnote that says "just dont be poor and get sick" its fucked up that rich business owners dont want their own employees needs taken care of which would help provide for a healthier and more productive workforce, where I live factories in the area provide insurance, but make the plans unreasonably expensive, one employer I worked for paid $9 an hour but the insurance was $600 a month, no one could afford it,

 

The US government doesn't do anything right. Social Security, Medicare, ObamaCare = a Big waste of money. If medicare worked, we wouldn't need Obamacare. Therefore, what I want is, a more efficient government. But since that is never going to happen under the current system; I don't want to pay MORE taxes for MORE programs which don't work.

How do I know Obamacare wont work? Cause Social Security/medicare/the government, isn't working! For Gods sake, the US post office can't even manage their money. They're closing down a bunch of post offices here in the USA.

America is overtaxed; I'm not talking about for millionaires or billionaires, but the middle class of this country is shrinking due to over taxation. The poor and rich in this country reap the benefits of the system, while perpetually STEALING money from the middle class. That's why our middle class is shrinking.

Liberals refuse to open their eyes and see that their agenda is also hurting the middle class. It's not the poor people in this country who need help; it's the middle class who are losing their houses and jobs and being forced to pay for a failing government system which doesn't benefit them in the least.

It should be obvious to people. I used to be a Liberal myself, until I realized that more taxes doesn't really help anyone, nor does more government.

And, "Stealing from the 'rich,' to give to the poor," is still stealing. Although it's a nice thought in retrospect, in practice our government steals from the middle class, to give to the poor (who refuse to work,) and the filthy rich special interest groups, who use our government to get what they want!!!

 

You mean, they might get something for nothing? True. Some might. It just seems like a 16 tier healthcare system that depends on how much you earn, how many dependents you have, and where you might live in the country - along with a myriad of other circumstances....and you still have the thought, regardless of your income and personal circumstances, of a massive bill at the end of the day. Just so some can choose what healthcare providers and insurance companies MIGHT provide but might not. That's a very scary world to live in.

 

Well,the government is working good enough that I get my SS check every month. Since I started working at 14---I'LL TAKE IT!! Yeah Odon---that's the way we do it.

 

Correct me if I m wrong, but I think approx 2% of your taxes go to government provided healthcare. Compared to approx 18% that we pay out of our taxes. Overall, we pay the same. The difference is who gets what when and how. Here we all get the same regardless of how much we contribute. Like I have said, it seems like you have a 16 tier healthcare system just so you can choose who makes a profit and who you ultimately trust to provide that care. Which is ok if you want a multi layered/tiered healthcare system where some lose and some gain. It's the ultimate e.g of an individualist society. Bravo for that.

The same is happening with out Post Offices - yet we maintain our healthcare system. It isn't because the government can't run the post offices - it's because the world changes: less people use the post office, more people are expecting pensions etc etc etc.

I think it's fair to say we invented the 'middle-class'. Yet we don't allow that to determine who gets what when, with regards to healthcare.

I would look at what the UK does with regards to healthcare and formulate an argument of why that does not work. Taking into account all your arguments about trickle down effects, the middle class and the poor sponging off the middle class. I think it's an argument created from the fundamental fact you don't wish to help each other. Correct me if I am wrong.

Have you actually explained what system you want, and/or how the system should change?

 

I don't think you answered my question.

 

"the fundamental fact that you don't wish to help each other"

Nailed it.

 

America is not over-taxed. I believe I heard that our taxes are at the lowest point in the last 30 years. France is overtaxed: the rich are facing a 75% tax right now and many of them are leaving the country. Here, the rich cry about a 39% marginal rate.