Papa John Is Mad About Obama Care

I disagree. I think most government programs don't go completely broke because they can just steal more and more money from the taxpayer. My point was that the expense is far greater than the benefit with 90% of the government programs we have. Our government employees are overpaid, and certain programs contribute nothing to the general welfare of society.

Americas entitlement system does not actually "help" anyone, but rather causes dependency. Anyone who works or attends college is automatically barred from receiving foodstamps no matter how desperately they need them. Therefore the government is literally paying people to sit on their ass and reproduce. (more kids = more government money.)

Who's we? Free market capitalism, and the idea that one owns their own body and what their body produces, is what created the middle class. The redistribution of wealth is rapidly destroying it...

You are wrong. I have no problem (as an individual,) helping another individual. But you and I have 2 totally different definitions of what "helping" means. Imo, in order to help someone, they have to have SOME type of desire to help themselves. The government supporting someone from cradle to grave, and not allowing them to work or further their education is not what I call "helping," at all.

Parents may also support their kids, but at least (many of them) help their kids develop skills and traits which will help them survive in the real world.

Government "help" means stealing from those who are actually trying to better themselves, and giving their money to those who refuse to work or go to school.

If you think the governments "help" makes people want to better their life, just look at their housing projects. Every time one is built, the neighborhoods crime rate goes up, the place is vandalized and, later demolished over and over again.

The worse thing you could've asked of me is to take Great Brittan as an example. We broke away from the Brittish government, in the belief that governments should protect life, liberty and, the pursuit of happiness. The less like the UK we are, the better. America was made to be a country free of over taxation.

Well, I have in many other topics. I'll go over it again, although I know you're not likely to agree.

I think the federal government should protect life, liberty and, property. I think all elected officials should adhere to the constitution and that's it.

I think States should handle education and foodstamps, and people should be able to opt out of Social Security, Medicare, Obamacare or, any other government program they so choose.

I think we should abolish the Federal Reserve, The DHS, the TSA, the CIA and, other government agencies which have been corrupted and endanger the freedom of the citizens.

I also believe, taxes should be abolished and replaced with the Fair Tax (A percentage of what the individual makes.)

The drug war should be ended immediately and, America should only be able to go to war if a country is a direct threat to our National security.

Most importantly, all Unconstitutional laws which have passed in the past 100 years should be repealed. (the espionage act, the federal reserve act, the patriot act, the NDAA for fiscal year 2012 & 2013, CISPA, the FAA reauthorization act, HR 347 etc.)

 

You can only live in fantasy land until eventually you have to face reality, which is a matter of paying the bills. The longer you live beyond your means, prospering only by increasing debt, the more scary the world becomes for those who will have to face the consequences. But that's not your problem is it?

 

Did you not understand, I would deal with the situation "if" it arose, making do with the best care "my" means availed to me?

Note the slight rewording, but is that clearer?

 

StpLSD25

I am only talking about healthcare.
We might agree about other welfare/benefit programmes.
But the focus here is on healthcare.

If they are working or going to college how are they also sitting on their ass/reproducing? That doesn't make sense.

'The British'

The practice of officially classifying the British population according to occupation and industry began in 1851. The occupational element was gradually increased from 1881, and in 1887 the idea was first mooted by the Assistant Registrar General that, for mortality analyses, the population might be divided into broad groups based on social standing. However, it was only in 1911 that government recognised that the concepts of occupation and industry were distinct and so included separate questions on each in that year's Census.
http://sru.soc.surrey.ac.uk/SRU9.html

Wiki:
The modern usage of the term "middle class", however, dates to the 1700's UK Registrar-General's report, in which the statistician T.H.C. Stevenson identified the middle class as that falling between the upper class and the working class. Included as belonging to the middle class are professionals, managers, and senior civil servants. The chief defining characteristic of membership in the middle class is possession of significant human capital.

...remember 'in regards to healthcare'.
I'm talking about the healthcare system.

Absolutely. Health(care) being a major factor in maintaining life.

Ok, fine - You don't have to pay a percentage of your tax. But you do have to pay for all of your healthcare yourself, including your family, too. One out, all out (you your partner and your children). And that is for life. No opting back in. That also means your Dr is removed from any government oversight, and is not liable if he happens to kill you. He/she can pump you full of any drugs he/she see's fit. If there isn't enough Dr's (etc) willing to maintain this system - tough. You threw the baby out with the bath water.

 

It might make sense if you recognize that there are those who are not working or going to college and are sitting on their ass/reproducing.

Does that help you understand better?

 

Fucking nailed that on the head!!!!

I gave up responding on this thread as was like hitting my head against a brick wall.

 

I was trying, unsuccessfully, to enquire what would happen if a multitude of different healthcare issues arose. Here they would be dealt with one by one and nobody would have to worry about the cost. I was under the impression even with Insurance there was a limit to how much care you could receive - unless you payed for it. The insurance company can also refuse to pay out. If you are not working, the company is not making any contributions.

If a person lost there job, the crash used up all of the insurance (is that possible) and then you had a long term medical issue (cancer) - is there always a safety net so you do not die of cancer (etc).

 

StpLSD25
'Anyone who works or attends college is automatically barred from receiving foodstamps no matter how desperately they need them. Therefore the government is literally paying people to sit on their ass and reproduce. (more kids = more government money.)'

Maybe StpLSD25 missed out 'not' and 'does not'.

 

It would appear that you feel there must be a single solution to a very complex problem. When multiple problems arise, it helps to prioritize them in order to resolve them most effectively and efficiently. Problems are most often dealt with one by one, and while you may not feel a need to worry about the cost, it remains an issue that 'someone' has to deal with, if not immediately, eventually.
Yes, there are limits to what insurance plans will provide and pay for. That is most often determined by how much coverage you are willing and able to pay for.
Even with the best care available, I don't think there is any guarantee that you won't die of cancer. My younger brother died of cancer at age 41, and although he could have received care which would have extended his life further, the costs and quality of life he was enduring resulted in his refusal of further treatment. When using the term safety net, be careful you don't allow it to become a hammock. Health care can be extremely costly and has already become one of the greatest expenses government has become involved in, and mostly so because of government involvement.

 

You talk around in circles why won't you answer this....

I seen this as well thought I'd pop it in here

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/12/quality_of_us_medicine_the_bes.html

 

They're entitled to their opinion, I don't have to agree with it.

Government should be removed from the provision function, which would greatly reduce the cost of health care. Health care should be a Doctor patient relationship, without need of government or government agency involvement.

 

http://qkme.me/3sdc2l

 

My mother just went to the hospital and she has no insurance and no money. They will take you in make sure your not gonna die then they release you....very similar to a court appointed lawyer. So whoever made that meme dosnt know what they are talking about.

 

Point is your criminals get better treatment then those working for nothing at the end of the day

 

"those working for nothing at the end of the day"?

 

That's true. The complex nature of tax increases, pay increases and the deficit is an ongoing issue - one that has been going on since time immemorial - yet here we are...one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

Why would you say it is so costly due to government involvement. When it isn't as costly here - with more government involvement.


These are some of the common reasons I have found:

U.S. Has Smaller Elderly Population and
Fewer Smokers, But Higher obesity Rates

U.S. Has Below-Average Supply and
Utilization of Physicians, Hospitals Beds

Prices for drugs, office Visits, and
Procedures Are Highest in the U.S.

Use of Expensive Medical Technology
More Common in the U.S.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/m...laining_high_hlt_care_spending_intl_brief.pdf


unnecessary services ($210 billion annually); inefficient delivery of care ($130 billion); excess administrative costs ($190 billion); inflated prices ($105 billion); prevention failures ($55 billion), and fraud ($75 billion)

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/...system-wastes-750-billion-year/#ixzz2GR7GMNnq


Process Mapping - An Overview -
http://www.institute.nhs.uk/quality...ment_tools/process_mapping_-_an_overview.html

 

Ya those people who go every day to work, and seem to get nowhere.....


They make enough to just scrape by in life......they pay their bills aren't a burden ie: welfare.

But you know they work their butts off for nothing really at the end of the day....


But it's most likely to hard to see those people with your nose being so far up in the air.

 

What pisses me off about that mansion estate is that it is a huge write-off machine. Any real estate taxes paid on it and any interest paid to finance it are deductions on a Federal tax return.

Now, our Leaders are looking to tax the health insurance of the working man as income.

 

well the funny thing is those people that you speak of there ^^^ yeah i used to be one of them so i know very well, those are the people that the obama care is going to hurt the most. that is the very reason...and really only reason i am against it.

the people that you are talking about (depending on the part of the country, but in NJ where i worked for only a little over the minimum wage) make right around $20k. which is if i read correctly is the number that separates the people that have to pay for their healthcare to the people that get a free ride, or an easy ride under obamacare. now if that is correct and believe me i know some mouth breather will come and tell me if im wrong. but if i am correct and i made $20.2k and was just getting by, how the hell am i going to be able to buy my own health insurance on top of the basic bills that i am already struggling to pay. and for me i only had a 3 mile walk to work but there are some people that live 10 miles or more away from work if you go down south to the farmlands where there is no regular public transportation. so these people need a car. now if they are just scraping by and there car breaks down maybe the money they were putting towards obamacare would have been enough to fix the car and keep them working. i am sure obamacare covers ambulance rides but i dont think it covers ambulance rides to work.
i know it sounds like i am against socialized health care by what im saying but im not, im just against the plans that have been talked about by the politicians.

 

Those who feel they are under-taxed are free to move to France or the UK. It would appear that the loudest complainers wanting higher taxes are those who pay little or none at all. After all those who are wealthy and complain are not denied paying more if they wish, the I.R.S. freely accepts gifts in addition to the taxes owed.