Paul Contra Jesus

It must be my explanation that was not clear.
Spending time on reading shit and understanding it gives people the ability to think their own made shit.

 

Then provide the SUBSATANTIAL HISTORICAL RECORDS that support your deceitful claim!
I have written truth ~ now prove your point with substance.
All of the condemnations you spume upon me are true only for yourself and your vacuos idiocy.
& ps ~ constantine did not "re-write" the bible. Constantine chose what writings to include and exclude, thereby creating the NT. The ensuing Roman Catholic Church re-wrote every book over a period of 1600 years.
Now step out of your idiotic vacuosity and provide hisorical substance to the contrary. But you can't, because your pathetic 'argument' is as feeble as your mind.

 

I agree with Constantine choosing what went in the NT, however I do not belive that the catholic church re wrote it, for the simple fact that by this time Xainty was spread to other parts of the world prior to the catholic church.

 

"Christianity started out in Palestine as a fellowship; it moved to Greece and became a philosophy; it moved to Italy and became an institution; it moved to Europe and became a culture; it came to America and became an enterprise." Sam Pascoe, American scholar

 

Also there are somethings in the Catholic belifes that are contrdicted in the bible. For example praying to Mary, calling a preist Father, preist not having sex (Says in the bible that if ya can live with out lust of women then good for you, however we can't so don't do your self the harm by not marying because there is no wrong in it *pharaphased of course* so if the Catholic church did rewrite some things in the new testament then why not cover up those few little contridctions? Leads me to belive 2 things

A)Those came along after the rewrote the NT but makes one wonder if they did it once why not twice?
B)Its in the Aparcohya*sp?* and if thats the case wouldn't it really mean they added extra books and not edited the text?

Now i could be getting all this wrong and I aplogize. but to me somethings just don't add up. As with any historic theory *because really thats what history is. because we can't really know can we?*you gotta becareful with what you read.

PS if you want bible verses for the things i mentioned tell me and i'll find them. I just don't have the time to find the exact verses tonight.

 

Christians can and should pray for others, even for enemies and persecutors (Matthew 5:44). They may address their requests for the intercession of others not only to people still in earthly life, but also to those in heaven, in particular the Virgin Mary and the other Saints. As Mother of Jesus, the Virgin Mary is also considered to be the spiritual mother of all Christians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church#The_Christian_Path

In the Eastern Orthodox Church a saint is defined as anyone who is currently in Heaven, whether recognized here on earth or not....Because the Orthodox Church shows no true distinction between the living and the dead (believing the saints are alive in Heaven), the Orthodox treat the saints as if they were still here. They venerate them and ask for their prayers, and consider them brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. Saints are venerated and loved and asked to intercede for salvation, but they are not given the worship accorded to God, because their holiness is believed to come from God. In fact, anyone who worships a saint, relics, or icons is to be excommunicated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church#Saints.2C_relics.2C_and_the_deceased

They don't pray to her/the saints. They ask for her/their help.

ALSO...

Deuterocanonical Apocrypha
The deuterocanonical books are the books that Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Oriental Orthodoxy include in the Old Testament that were not part of the Jewish Tanakh. Their acceptance among at least some early Christians is generally well-testified, and as early as the Council of Rome in 382, an official canon including these books was published. http://www.ishwar.com/christianity/

 

Yeah, I realized after you probobly mean the NT apocrypha, but I am keeping those in there just because I think it is interesting...

 

First of all let me say Fuck You.
Second of all let me point out that you are doing the exact same thing you want to accuse me of doing (typical Orwellian propaganda) and let me give you an example where you are a liar and a cheat:

You do not have a single shred of evidence to be saying that Constantine Chose what was included.
In fact, all kinds of historical evidence indicates the Bishops chose to confirm what writings were already accepted.

Why did you just lie and say Constantine did the choosing?
Answer please?

 

Guyz stop arguing go to a library buy the Nietzsche book, The Antichrist, you will find common ideas on this book. Could you ever agree?
That would be fantastic?

 

Thats what i was talking about, I've never found anywhere in my bible thatsays i need to/have too pray to a saint for them to intercede to God for my salvation. So is it you can only reach God through Christ who you can only Reach through the Saint? Akso when Saul *the king* taked to Sammule through the medium. Sammule was upset "why did yo uwake me from my rest" sooo aperently he didn't wannna be bothered lol what makes the saint any diffrent? Also why should they ask a saint for help when they got God?

I'm not trying to argue you with you Burbort you just seem level headed enough to discuss with

 

Ok, first off, I am unfamiliar with that story (I havn't read much in the Old Testament), but what was saul talking to Sammule about?

Secondly, I don't think it is nessecary to ask the saints for any help, but similar to that if I asked you to pray for me if I was goign through something really tough.

I have gotta go to class now, I will expand on those, and probobly add a few other thigns later

 

1Samule 28 Saul was asking Samule for help cause he was screwed.



Every site I read never gave actual verses that mentioned praying to saints. Also, Prayer is usely in your head *though it can be verbal* so when I pray in my head to Saint Bob, Bob can hear my prayers then intercedes my prayers to God? Why the middle man?


To me there is a diffrence having someone pray with you and for you then some one relaying yoru prayers to God (i could have all that wrong of course to tell me if i do)

Another thing is using the preist for confession then him telling you how many prayers to say for what sin. Sadly for my argument i'm gonna qoute the Comiden D.L Hugely but I do belive he gets the point across pretty well

"Now when I pray to that little man in the booth how do I know hes telling God the right thing? Now when I get to heaven and can't go in cuz that little man in that booth told God wrong i'm gonna be pissed off...Tell God HEY! You heard that from the little man in the booth not me!"

Another thing that the Roman catholic church has done that isn't supported in the bible is the Crusades....If Last time I checked Jesus was a pacfist... Why not put in a verse that says all holy wars are okay as long as your fighting for jeruslam so you can make it a trade city?

Martin Luther translated the bible from Latin to German*?* yet you never here that Martin Luther changed the bible? So whose to say That the catholic church changed it, then matin luther changed it. But since it was in German when it got translated to English they changed it agian? I'm sure to some that seems far fetched but how is it any diffrent then saying the catholic church changed it back in 300-400 AD?

Also the Roman Catholic church had no reason to change it....Why?
A) Only preist and rich rich rich rich people could read latin
B) It wasn't right to question the church
Proof that most people couldn't read the bible was the fact that they still paid to get people out of pergutory. Anyone who read the bible would know that there is no purgetory and you can't bribe God with money. Now There is no mention in the bible of puregtory or paying for your salvation with money. Seeing how that was a common practice why not add that to the bible?

As far as the gospels being real. I have a question for you.

Do you belive that the Romans crucfied people on a regular basis?
Do you also know that we haven't found a singel crucfix? And the only corpse I'm aware of being found with any traces of a crucfied death was a single nail through the ankle?

Yet the Romans Crucfixions are truth even though to a certin degree they share the same evidence as the 4 gospeles? Graffiti and writen accounts

 

Take the mainstream religon out of the whole picture and would people still argue agianst it?

 

What I gather from reading this is more different than mearly directing speach towards saints. Samuel appears to have his pirt physically risen out of the earth. also, he is quite angry at Saul for raising him to get help (because Saul and God no longer have a pleasant relationship) And it just seems that Samuel doens't want to help because he just plain doesn't like the God/Saul situation...but that si just me..

I have only asked for a saints help a few times (the most recent being last night for St. Jude, patron saint of lost causes) bu the way I go about it, it isn't like i am only asking the saint for hwelp, and hoping that he passes the message to God, I prayed to God as wel, then asked saint Jude to pray for me as though I would ask you or anyone else...(I am goign to look around at the types of sies you mention. Not to try and find a verse or anything, but just cause I am interested...)

I am not sure of the actual doctrine of the Orthodox and Catholic churches, I am just going on how I perceive things. They may very well relay prayers to God in the doctrines of those faiths, but I am unaware if that is the case or not as well...

That is something I don't agree with within the Catholic doctrine, and one of the reasons why i am not drawn solely to that sect. The orthodox idea of talking to an elder abut your sin, and advising a "treatment" or prayer is ok I guess because you still confess to God, and work through your faith, but you have someone who is physically here to assist with God's spiritual aid...

I agree, I wasn't promoting the Catholic church or anything (I am not Catholic, I have that in my profile cause I don't really fit in any denomination that I have found, so I am really interested in going around from church to church on a regular basis...that would be, if i went on a regular basis, but that is a differnt pile of junk)

I am not sure of your meaning here...

I am also wqondering about this. Are you suggesting that Jesus was not crucified by the Romans? I had read that the word used for "cross" could also mean a single stake, and that that was the prefered method of crucifixion in the first century, with the T-bar cross coming in later...

 

Side Note: Thought this was interesting...
When did the Church start honoring saints?

By the year 100 A.D., Christians were honoring other Christians who had died, and asking for their intercession. Many people think that honoring saints was something the Church set up later, but it was part of Christianity from the very beginning. As a matter of fact, this practice came from a long-standing tradition in the Jewish faith of honoring prophets and holy people with shrines. The first saints were martyrs, people who had given up their lives for the Faith in the persecution of Christians.

http://www.catholic.org/saints/faq.php

 

yeah most of the comments I've made are based loosely on interpation of it.

As far as the Martin Luther thing goes just me rambling on how i think the Church rewriting the bible isn't likely.

as far as the cross thing gose. I think the cross looked more like this T *i watched a show on NGC on it* it takes about 3 men and the post is staionary. Meaning christ could of caried the top half like the bible says. The reason they think it was a T on the show was because of a peice of acinet garfiti making fun of Xains. it was shaped like this |----I---- *but up right* the top | was where the nailed his wrist *which back then was still considred your hand so no that isn't a contrdiction* and the I was a footrest and they nailed the nail in through the ankel. I'm sorry i sound so incoherent but i'm sick and dizzy lol!!

 

thats interesting indeed

 

there is suprisingly lots of old art that depicts the T cross instead of the latin cross. Well they are TECHNICALLY latin crosses, but the top part is very very tiny and only really used for the titilus...

 

all christ's death is now is a icon :-\ I wonder if Christ came back what he'd think?

 

More rhetoric? why am i not surprised?
Once again you fail to supply evidence.
Even a simply understanding of history demonstrates that a dictatorship such as Rome was under the Emperors was not a democracy. All decisions were made by the Emperor alone, hence the "arian" heresy edicts, which is substantiation of Constantines NICEAN CREED. Look it up ~ you might a] learn something and b] realise just how ignorant you really are.