People are fundamentally 'good'.

not to nitpick, but everyone seeking their own personal good things is not a subjective thing, it is very objective, unless we don't know what we are seeking, in which case it is nothing.

 

so you think there is an objective good thing that everyone needs, and applies to everyone?

 

no, I'm saying that everyone knows what they're looking for or they don't. If they don't its neither subjective or objective, if they do then it isn't subjective it is objective.

 

how?

 

what could possibly be truer than what you desire?

 

well, YOU, for one.

I don't see how personal desires equate to objectivity though.

 

Gotta say it , I am completely bemused by what youre saying.: )
We're not talking about driving at 32 in a 30 zone , or flirting with some guys Mrs.
Evil has a meaning , just like "ugly" or "camp" or whatever other word.
Most labels have grey areas but evil is evil.

BTW , I've come across pure evil.Thats not animal evil , because animals arent capable of rational thought.
Its doing something u know is *massively* wrong but gives u fun.

 

and on what grounds is anything wrong?

you've defined good and evil as right and wrong, which is just the same concept, but using different words. not really a definition.

I'm glad I'm entertaining you, but your amusement really doesn't affect my opinion one way or another.

 

me for one, what does that mean?

personal desires don't equate to objectivity. That is too complex a sentance.

personal desires are objective. They are true in and of them selves and do not change based on what I think of them. (what I think of yours, and you of mine)

 

I meant you are more true than your desires. Desires rise and fall, something precedes desires, watches them. This is you.

You've contradicted yourself with the statement, "personal desires are objective"

even by your own wording, personal desires are still subjective. I dont see how it could be any other way.

 

which is unfortunate, because it is a very simple and correct statement. Not to me, although I believe it, but to the smart guys.

You seem to be saying that the statement 'personal desires are objective' is a contradiction.

I can only induce that you think the words personal and objective are at odds. That isn't the case, because something is personal does not make it subjective, it can in fact be objective, as is the case with desire.

Lets take, for instance, my desire for a cheeseburger. I know it is true because I feel it and think it. There is no question in my mind that it is true. For that to be subjective the truth that I want a cheeseburger would have to be dependant on whether or not you think that I want a cheeseburger. It isn't the case that it is dependant on you, as no matter what you think, I still want a cheeseburger. And therefore an objective fact of the matter.

thus 'personal desires are objective' is true and not contradictory.

 

aha I see your angle now.

but it's sort of a perverse use of the word "objective". Your personal desire for a cheeseburger is totally yours. Even if the entire world thought you were lying, you would still want one, b/c that desire is ONLY yours.

objective - undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena.

All desires are based on emotion or personal bias. Also, I cannot observe your desire for a cheeseburger. I could observe you buying one/eating one/making one, but I could never observe your actual desire for one.

 

Waking Life, you're not really making a lot of sense.

 

i believe humans are simply fundamentally humans, capable of both good and evil (which essentially are arbitrary concepts invented by humans, quite likely)

look at david motari or whatever his name is....

look at hitler....

terrible people.

look at dr. martin luther king....gandhi.....good people. but not perfect at all.

even our best people fall short of being what anyone is likely to call 100% good and right.

yet we're capable of unfathomable cruelty.

i dunno. i think humans are simply another type of animal, and we aren't inherently good or bad. but i think theres a slight tendency towards being douchebags

 

Maybe it is wrong? but thats just the way i like to see things, i mean why should i have no belief toward human beings??
We are all capable of making mistakes, doesnt make us evil

 

Its to do with choice. Humans are at the top of the food chain. In fact we are so close to becoming this planet's god that the food chain is irrelevant. Why are we sitting here mindlessly talking about nothing instead of carving out the ultimate existential journey or tirelessly fighting to find ways to improve on the world? Because we can't always be fucked, and thats our choice. Its only natural that a percentage of people are going to abuse the right to create their own moral compass.

 

no no, i'm not saying it's wrong; you said you thought it was stupid. i was just wondering why you stuck to your guns about something you think is stupid. i'm not saying i agree or disagree; i believe everyone has the potential to be anyone.

 

I recognize your complaint. and I'll leave it on you to tell me where you and I are at odds.

 

Anyone into game theory?

 

i don't think i'm aware of this theory. please give an overview?