Philosophers

While you are right that lots of people tend to conclude that morals, values or truth are absent, I don't think it is a logical conclusion.
There is a huge difference between not knowing them and dismissing them.
A lot of people might interpret things this way, but a lot of people don't. By dismissing them you will close the door for any discussion, while I think it opens a lot of new doors.

I might make the distinction between 'negative nihilism' and 'positive nihilism', where negative nihilism concludes that there are no morals etc. and thus personal life is utterly pointless, where positive nihilism thinks morals etc. can't simply be known, but doesn't dismiss them as non-existent.
Overly simplified black and white: negative nihilists might be the depressed persons who think life is pointless and therefore lose the will to live, while positive nihilists have a great passion for life, because of the same idea.

Personally, I don't believe we have reached the Age of Nihilism (yet), but the world as a whole is turning this way. This might be necessary for us to reach another 'age of enlightenment' as has happened a few times in the past like in the late 17th century and even the hippie movement in the 60's of the last century.

 

Okay.

 

Nihilism is a choice. Punk and Goth are choices. They aren't inevitable products of "postmodern" conditions or an understanding of reality. Why do people chose gloom, despair and misery? In some subcultures it's fashionable. It seems cool, chic, intellectual, etc. Wallowing in meaningless gives a sense of meaning to otherwise impoverished lives. Sartre (not a nihilist by any means, but similarly grim in outlook) spent his old age in the company of his mistress and fellow existentialist, Simone deBeauvoir, who found his senility intolerable--such the fate of those who make their own morality. Buddhism stresses that what a person believes is very important in the achievement of serenity; it's not relative, and those who can't free themselves of attachments condemn themselves to misery and meaninglessness. Viktor Frankl, psychologist and concentration camp survivor, recognized that the survivors were those who could continue to find meaning in life. They could do so in a variety of ways; memories of loved ones, a ray of light filtering into a dark cell, etc. But some ways were blind alleys: the quest for wealth, status, power, sensual indulgence, etc. In that sense, nihilists and post-modern relativists have it wrong.

Why do people choose hell? It's much the same question. Hell, I think, is not a place that we go to after death, but a metaphorical state of mind we can experience in this life. Sartre said that "Hell is other people". To the contrary, Genesis tells us that all of us are created in God's image and likeness, so if we look at other people in the right way, we see a reflection of an aspect of the divine. Dante's characterization of hell in Inferno is perceptive. The inmates were there largely because they wanted to be, or even in the depths of their suffering, were unwilling to take an honest look at themselves and take responsibility for their situation. Satan, himself, was stuck in a block of ice--in the fires of hell! The ice was a result of the flapping of his huge wings in his effort to get away from God. If he would have stopped flapping, he could have freed himself--but that was something he couldn't accept! Hell is a bad attitude resulting from lack of insight. Likewise, heaven depends on insight. "The Kingdom of the Father is spread out everywhere upon the earth. And people do not see it." (Gospel of Thomas, 113) I'm not cool, chic or intellectually fashionable in any sense of the word, but I'm relatively happy, which I attribute to a moment of clarity years ago.

 

Why not? What are the barriers?

God makes some unbelievers that way, on purpose (I guess that means they're forbidden to see). The only way such a person could redeem themselves is to *love* God (and pray .. fervent prayer avails much). Instead, some (most?) would accuse God .. angrily .. blame God, and would forever remain a wandering star.

Jude 1:13
Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg7ZXqeJ9D8"]Portishead - Wandering Stars (+ Lyrics) - YouTube

I settle it in my mind, utter simplicity: people either pray or they prey. One or the other and never neither.

 

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I don't agree with that point, but the rest is right on, especially the "prey or pray".

 

They're not my words .. it's scripture. I just didn't quote the passage.

 

But, in effort to steer away from religion, God and scripture and bring it back to philosophers and nihilism ...

I never really subscribed to "these are amazing times to be living in!" because the grandeur of that was too sensational for me. But I do recognize and understand that MANY people have been saying the same thing, for decades:

"I feel like I'm born for something BIG"

People seem to feel and intuit this enormous, mega ultra event on Earth ..

I'm still focused on 2020 with my silly (but effective) beliefs. Heh. I derive hope and optimism from it but .. I still carry 7+ billion people in my mind every single day. I can't shed awareness of the size of the Human population if my life depended on it.

People make it all look so terribly grim and gloomy, way too much of the time.

 

As Epicurus said, a few 100 years BC:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Also not wanting to get into a religious debate here, but throughout philosophy 'god' has played an important role. Personally I think we haven't really grown up as a whole if we can not let go of the mysterious man in the sky. Metaphysically god may still be relevant, but not as something to worship, rather as something to contemplate. The big question of 'why?' is interwoven with, for lack of a better word, god. Until science can give us a conclusive answer (which may never be for various reasons), god will be a cosmic player for many of us.

 

There's too many ways I could go but I've settled on this course (watch out for the curves ahead):

Is human willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not a scientist.
Is human able, but not willing?
Then he is retarded. :clown:
Is human both able and willing?

Don't know, why don't you ask them?

I can see it now .. a politician with a scientist for a side kick .. going box to cardboard box in da ghetto

They can introduce themselves and say, "sorry to bother you, God .. we're here to diagnose you and write some new policies about how to treat your drunk, homely ass"

What's God (Most High) supposed to do .. wave a magic wand over all of Earth and Humanity?

Here's today's verse of the day

Then he said to the crowd, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross daily, and follow me. If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake, you will save it. Luke 9:23-24 NLT

to which some of the humans might reply (in accusatory, blaming, faulting manner)

Dear God,

Why did you create jealousy?

Love always,

Cain and Abel

If only God didn't create jealousy, murder wouldn't exist!

Clearly, it is all non-existent God's fault. :dizzy2:

(Interesting to me that some people are more willing to suppose the existence of God when they want to attribute fault, blame and responsibility)

http://www.towahkon.org/TheNewSpirituality.html

From the beginning of the above link,

How will God handle it? How will gov handle it? How will human beings handle it?

We cannot fault God when we refuse to do the work.

Want to know the instructions God gave me, personally and directly? It's part of my "job" and "work" that I'm supposed to be doing. I admit, I'm no master and I often fail.

1 Peter 3:8-11

That right there ^^^

That's Testimony. REAL Testimony. And yes, I have physical proof. Not that it matters .. people who are closed minded, with their minds made up, will craft all sorts of ideas to "refute" me.

Oh well.

And I actually do have a "mysterious man in the sky" story (but, of course!) that'll really make a person *think*

It's just a story of consciousness and connectivity. Rather, connectivity and consciousness.

How much of Humanity, alive on this planet right now, is *outside* of God's circle?

I don't know. I don't even know if the question is a valid one. But it's hard for me to think that somebody like Jeffery Dahmer was a manifestation of God. In my mind, Jeffrey Dahmer is proof and evidence of Hell itself.

I don't want to leave off on a Hellish note so ..

Happy Spring, gonna be 67 degrees tomorrow :sunny:

 

Deep.

 

It's like an excavation or a heist of some sort. I *DIG* so deep, leave myself hollow

lol

 

This is complete nonsense. This kind of utter thoughtless reasoning without any logic whatsoever makes me not want to read any further to be honest.

 

To Epicurus;

If god denied your opportunity to complain you would say he didn't love you.

 

I think you took it too personally. Did you feel judged, perhaps? lol

lol is at use of perhaps (never ceases to crack me up)

 

Sorry this is not a fact. The statement included a preamble mentioning it was how she would treat the question. To not read further or to not consider further is tantamount to ignorance unless you had come to some firm understanding

 

It could also be that my tone is easy to mistake for bitterness or accusation. Not intentional .. I wish there was a way for me to clarify, so there's no misunderstanding, but then it might be too much. I'll just have to address it as it comes up, if it comes up.

Oh, and I should've put a smiley after my use of the word retarded. My self-amusement gets me in a lot of trouble. heh

There, I fixed it. I put a clown next to the word retarded. Even though I'm only half-joking (other half is serious).

 

The big "if".

 

On contrary, I didn't take it personally at all. It just makes no sense.

 

Well I don't know what to tell you, then. It's pretty simple.

"God's work isn't done by God it's done by people" ~ lyric, Ani DiFranco

It's meant as an aid to perspective, serving the purpose of understanding.

By the way, understanding itself is the God level. Knowledge is NOT the highest form, understanding is.

You can know something but not understand it
but when you understand something
you cannot not know what you understand

Understanding is Most High (it surpasses knowledge)

AND ...

it may take time for somebody to really digest that. So don't pop off until you give it due time.

"pop off" = reactionary.