Pot and paranoia

The funniest part of your postagrophy in general, but for brevitys sake lets just stick to that which has been exhibited in this thread, funnier in fact then that despite numerous instances of contrary remarks made by both myself and others you continue to push the same non-issue, funnier, indeed, then the reality that you have repeatedly excused yourself by an erroneous attempt at clarification yet continue to make arrogant assumptions, is that never once in this entire thread have I suggested, at all, in any way, that I suffer from paranoia.

 

You demonstrated it quite clearly though.

 

He shoots. He scooooooores!!!

 

It really is rather simple.
Strains or weed with a higher THC content tend to induce a more "heady" or cerebral type high, along with that is the greater chance of having an anxious or paranoid episode as well. Strains or weed with a higher CBD/CBN content are more stony and sedating, with less of a cerebral aspect and less instances of a paranoid or anxious episode.

The reason why different harvest timings and curing methods are also important is because many of the cannabinoids that give the "stony" aspect are produced as THC degrades. Buds with clear trichomes will have a higher ratio of THC to other cannabinoids, milky or cloudy trichs will have a more balanced ratio, amber or brown will have a higher CBD/CBN to THC ratio and hence a more stony, less paranoid high, even in the same strain or even same plant.

Hell I figured that out over 30 years ago just from smoking different types of weed and growing my own.
The reason it is more pronounced today is simply a matter of numbers, the overall THC and other cannabinoid content is on average about 8%-10% higher than even some of the best weed a few decades ago.

Plus many, many studies have been done and just about every one shows that straight THC produces very uncomfortable experiences in the vast majority of subjects.
It really all comes down to the THC/CBD/CBN content and ratios.
Genetics is a major component in that, but so is time of harvest and curing techniques.

and that's the trooff... :tongue:

(another nod to Laugh-In)

 

^ Noxious: Nice signature. I am a huge fan of early Genesis and Foxtrot is one of their finest.

I think that we need to understand the complex pharmacology of Cannabis to truly make a determination here. I will write up a longer edit to this post later today, but I will start by saying that THC and CBD/CBN are very different and that the Cannabinioid receptors are some of the most multi-faceted and difficult to understand receptors in the CNS.

 

Hi etkearne.I also take Zyprexa.20 milligrams a night.Also Paroxetine for social phobia and anxiety.And Clonazepam for panic attacks.I'm a real case.Clonazepam is a Benzo, at least 5 times stronger than vallium.It's beautiful.2 of these bad boys and I can do anything.

 

I didn't read through 5 pages of this. Sorry, I'm too sick to see straight right now haha...

I noticed that when I smoke CHEAPER strains of weed, I have that same issue. I get anxiety for brief periods of time.

Last week, when I was finishing up my cheap stash, I was doing something in the kitchen and all of a sudden felt a pressure on my head, like I needed to sit down right then and there and chill for a minute.

But the better/more expensive the strain, the better I feel and the less anxious I get. Not saying I don't get anxious, but I don't get anxious as often or at all sometimes.

 

I'm not too bad with the paranoia anymore, but I did used to find myself getting a little bit self conscious about a year after I started smoking everyday. Much the same kinda thing, just worrying what others might have said to me or about me and then overthinking anything I've done in case I pissed anyone off. I then stopped for a few months, started again but cut down a shit load and now it's all good
Definitely is worth a break if you're getting a bit uncomfortable

 

Hi MeatyMushroom.Where in the UK are you?I'm in north London.

 

Ok. So, as promised, and after a boost of motivation via an extra 25mg of Vyvanse (Dextroamphetamine), I feel ready and able to delve into the rather complicated pharmacology of Cannabis and then you all can look at the OBJECTIVE facts and determine if you think it can possibly cause anxiety/panic attacks.

I will be using a book called Principles of Neuropsychopharmacology by Feldman, Meyer, and Quenzer, to make my claims. I won't make use of citations since I am going to (for simplicity's sake) just use this book to make my claims.

Cannabinoids act by being partial agonists to Cannabinoid Receptors in the brain. I will describe what these receptors do in a bit. It is worth noting that these receptors are among the most numerous in the brain, and are widespread, hitting all areas of the brain. So, naturally, you would expect a wide range of effects.

As a typical G-Protein receptor, activation of the CB receptors by an agonist or partial agonist involves indirect signaling. It is not like the Dopamine Auto-receptors which simply spill out dopamine when activated by something like Amphetamine (I added that part to clarify things). The CB1 receptor for which THC is the well-known partial agonist, is closely coupled with the mu-opioid receptor and Dopamine Type II receptor. The opioid receptors work by inhibiting GABA in the Nucleus Accumbens (pleasure center), allowing a flood of dopamine in that region (responsible for euphoria). Activation of D_2 receptors causes complex responses ranging from "hyperactivity" to "stereotyped behavior" (repeated behaviors like tics). It is worth noting that drugs typically referred to as Dopamine-ergic drugs like Amphetamine and Cocaine act on Dopamine Auto-receptors. They do NOT activate the D_2 G-Protein receptor particularly directly.

Back to the CB receptors, they are thought to mediate the release of many neurotransmitters. For one, acetylcholine release is inhibited, decreasing brain levels of that transmitter. It is related to memory forming and brain plasticity. That is why it is hypothesized that Cannabis can cause confusion and short term (not long term) memory loss and a feeling of un-reality. Dopamine release is observed, which is a combination of the mechanism of GABA inhibition in the Nucleus Accumbens (like opioids) AND direct action ON the opioid receptors. Opioid antagonists are shown to directly inhibit euphoric experience in Cannabis to a significant degree.

Also, Dopamine receptor (not auto-receptor) activation could be 'turned off' by using Dopamine Antagonists (aka Antipsychotics) like Haloperidol. This indicates that CB1 receptor activation is responsible for tangible activation of the Dopamine receptors. In the conclusion, I will discuss this more. Norepinephrine (brain adrenaline) is also mediated, with low doses of Cannabis increasing levels and high doses decreasing it. Norepinephrine excess causes excitability and, yes, undeniably, anxiety (though not necessarily accompanied by depression or uneasy-ness. Remember, some anti-depressants act to increase NOR levels).

Overall, Cannabis acts to inhibit most neurotransmission. That explains its effects in memory issues and even its pseudo-hallucinogenic effect. The reason for that is the fact that if Cannabis inhibits the INHIBITORY transmission of GABA in particular parts of the brain (not the nucleus accumbens), it causes excitatory responses, and by that, I mean that the brain will 'retrograde signal'- essentially 'fooling' itself that things happened which MAY or MAY NOT have actually occurred.

I will now make some remarks which are not in the book. These are my own opinions gained from research into pharmacology. I research mathematical pharmacology as a graduate student, so I have a degree of familiarity with the material.

It seems obvious to me that since Cannabinoids influence all of the main neurotransmitters (except notably serotonin), that the range of effects will be broad, including both desirable and undesirable effects. Worth noting is that the combination of the perceptual changes and confusion granted by the Acetylcholine inhibition combined with the activation of D_2 receptors (which, remember, are the target of antipsychotic drugs- that is, they DE-activate D_2 over-activation), it is possible some people feel uneasy with the drug. However, with the combination of near-opioid effects in the Nucleus Accumbens AND the rush of Norepinephrine in low doses, it seems many people would find something desirable from this drug.

That is all I have to say. Take my 'summary' as an opinion, but the writings on the actual pharmacology are indisputable evidence. They are from a reputable text on the subject and I did not include any unproven hypotheses about the mechanism of the drug.

 

Great post!

 

well my response is not as big as above nice post btw,but yeah man i think you just get older and wiser and the bullshit actually fears you coz you dont want no part of it..

 

Bout 45mins out of Manchester
How's the pot paranoia down there?

 

i wonder if this has any validity to it? i know what you mean - sometimes there is just something different about the high depending on what method you use.

i find that when i vaporize instead of grabbing my pipe, i tend to have a 'cleaner' high, for lack of a better term. i'm much more clear-headed and able to think straight than if i had taken a couple bong rips, but still undeniably high.

i wonder, does it have something to do with the temperature? i assume joints burn at a lower temperature than a bowl with a flame constantly being applied to it, and obviously vaporizers are completely different because no combustion takes place at all.

 

Personally, I think it sounds crazy... lol But that's cause I really prefer joints.... lol

However, there is another point to keep in mind in regards to paranoia...

With the laws the way they are in most places... smoking weed, should make you a tad bit paranoid... but that isn't a physical effect... lol

 

i prefer joints as well, but i live in an apartment building on the main floor and have to worry about the smell. joints are usually a treat for when i'm at a friends place or with a large group of people who aren't too lazy to go for a walk to smoke it.

 

i can't imagine being able to function after ingesting a quarter ounce of weed every day, minimum. you've either got really shitty stuff (which i assume isn't the case), or you have a hell of a tolerance.

 

lol, I don't have shitty stuff...

 

for anyone who wants to still get high but normally gets paranoid, trying taking a benzo before smoking.

 

Hmm, I'd rather just stop smoking for 2 weeks rather than pop some pills to kick some dust over the problem.