My evidence was in the quote of yours I excerpted. I explained that at the time. If you scroll back, you'll find it. It seems quite self-explanatory. And why do you think I would want to deliver a critique of your insecurity?
Lone Deranger: hmmm,... the partial evidence of the social knowledge from which love cannot quit. Of course, I'm trying to get understood in the explicit way of phenomenon realized to some Progress.(n/t)
That quote had to do with common phenomena. You are seeing something in the statement that I do not identify with. What you said does not explain what you are seeing, only that it somehow coincides with you assessment. If my perception of your judgment is in error, I could stand to be specifically corrected. Why would you want to inform me about your opinion of me. Why would you want to form an opinion of me personally at all. Are you truly interested in communication or are you only interested in finding support for your judgments? It appears to me that you are not interested in the truth lonelyderanger, but prefer instead innuendo.
I can't account for how things appear to you, however incorrect. As to your questions (well, one of them had a question mark) this answer should suffice: I am a student of human nature. I hope you have a nice evening.
But you have gone beyond studiousness in an effort to teach and exposed the fact that you know next to nothing of human nature at large. That you are a student of human nature does not suffice as informative. Again you are alluding to private thoughts. I hope you find satisfaction in yourself.
You do like to get off topic, oh well. The point is that the "Lord's Prayer" or "Model Prayer" was never meant to be repeated over and over, Jesus counseled against repetition in our prayers and that would include using the model prayer. The purpose of the model prayer was give examples of what we should pray for and how to pray, not to replace our own heart felt prayers with words and phrases that would become meaningless through vain repetition.
You include the word later in your post, but the warning was against "vain repetition", not merely repetition in and of itself.
I like to discuss peoples ideas. I particularly am attentive to people who are attentive to me for what ever reason. How did jesus counsel against repetition of prayers? It is written, this kind requires much prayer and fasting. He told you what to pray for period. I did not suggest vain repetition, I said that god knows what is in your heart before you even ask. You do not know what you need nor therefore what to pray for. I said the prayer is for edification. Had you known this, you would know that you have the power to forgive sin. Part of that prayer is exercising that power. Part of that prayer is resisting the temptation to accuse or honor evil. Part of that prayer is being vigilant only for god and his kingdom. These are moment to moment aspects of our daily life. You are mistaken that the prayer, if repeated, represents vain phrases. The prayer is not about mindless repetition, it is about focusing the mind along certain principles.
Yeah. Jesus said; "when praying, do not say the same things over and over again, just as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words." So you say but Jesus didn't tell us; say this but said pray this way But you do suggest repeating that prayer and again Jesus said; "when praying, do not say the same things over and over again, just as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words." No, the prayer is to teach us how to pray, not to replace our players or tell what to say.
He chides those who think that shear number of words will bear fruit, not those who faithfully repeat prayers. Examples where Jesus praises repeated prayer (indicating it is vain, not repeated prayer that is the issue): Matt. 26:44 - Jesus prayed three times in the sam ewords Luke 18:13 - the tax collector beat his breast repeating the same words Rev. 4:8 - the 4 creatures of Heaven repeat "Holy, holy, Holy,..." for eternity Clearly it is vain prayer in general, not simply repetition. Exegesis like this is what makes me suspicious of other interpretations from the JWs and people with similar views.
I care exceedingly little what you think of me and even less whether you find my studies informative. I believe your perceptions are clouded, your judgment, suspect. I hope you find the inner peace you so desperately seek.
Okay, I see your translation of the bible is strikingly different from revised standard for it is written do not heap up empty phrases as the gentiles do. Heap up empty phrases is not the same as say the same things over and over. The fact is you must say the same thing over and over, forgiving not seven times but seventy times seven. Exactly, the phrases have practical meaning, the mind being focused on this meaning. It describes what to pray for. Again, your father knows what is in your heart before you even ask. You do not know what you need, therefore you do not know what to pray for. No, that prayer describes a particular focus of being vigilant only for god and his kingdom, with the practice of forgiveness. It is unrelenting focus on these principles not the vocal aping of the particular words. You talk about heartfelt personal prayers and I am pointing out to you that god knows best the remedy that is required. Let your heartfelt focus be along these lines then. What prayer do you offer those who persecute you, the prayer for forgiveness, forgive me as I forgive them. What prayer do you offer for any perceived lack, thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. What prayer would you offer for the well being of all, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Principles to be called upon at every turn. Your idea seems to be the example of the prayer involves pointing out only that a prayer has a beginning a middle and an end and it matters not what it's content is, so long as you say something different every time. Do you make a point of that when you offer a public prayer, so that no one hears you say anything twice? Why make the point of offering specific details about how to pray, if they are not significant details?
The only peace I have is the peace I share and I am not wanting for peace. So what you do care about is that you inform me that you think my perceptions are clouded and my judgment is suspect. Is that very important to you? Perhaps now that you've got that off your chest you can rest a little easier.
(Matthew 6:7) . . .But when praying, do not say the same things over and over again, just as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words.
This is what you said and I quote: Now you seem to be backtracking and trying to say something different. So which is it? Please get back to me when you make up your mind.
Not backtracking, expounding. I said there is one prayer and I demonstrated the practical methodology of the lords prayer as I have been taught. I said the lords prayer consists of these principles exercised as an unrelenting focus to the needs that arise, i.e. how do you pray for those who persecute you, that you be forgiven as you forgive, forgive me my trespasses as I forgive those who trespass against me, etc. Do you have any questions?
You quote that seemingly not understanding what it means, and are not reading in light of the rest of Scripture. Aside form the three quotations I selected, Jesus aslo compared God to the unjust judge (albeit God is quicker) who only listened to the woman after repeated petitions. Jesus is speaking against vain repetition, not just repetition.
The lord's prayer is just a blueprint on how to pray. It's not something to repeat over and over. Many school children sing the pledge of allegiance in the morning doesn't mean their heart is anywhere near the pledge. God already knows what we need beforehand so why do we need to have a set of prayers to follow? The only true prayer is the one that is immediately genuine and a longing for God's will be done on earth as in the beating of the chest. This is not to say that God is going to hate on anyone who prays with honesty, especially if the knowledge didn't come to them yet, but that it's better not to go down that road as preventative. All the headwork belongs to the 'super apostles' that eventually lead to the whore that mixes the sacred with the profane and gnosticism. Jesus isn't a philosophy. He's a way of life and a real person.
You read vain repetitions as any repetition that is in vain and not repetitions as a whole. My reading renders ALL repetition as vanity. If it's the former, then it contradicts the scriptures mentioned so far in the thread. There would also be no need to mention that God already knows what we want beforehand so therefore keep it short. Perhaps the three times was to demonstrate importance, something to keep our eyes open for. So maybe it wasn't the repetition but was why she was praying and why Jesus waited three times. Three has always been an important marker in the scriptures. It's probably to convey something to the reader by telling them to remember and think on it.
