psychadellic commune

Hahaha yeah that dude is kinda funny. Something's wrong man... I mean he tries to show respect the old sages but at the same time he don't give a shit about older member's opinion that live, or lived that lifestyle in the past. (outdoor living)

Sound like this "psychedelic truth seeker", in reality, doesn't give a shit about the truth. He -DOESN'T- want to hear anything that isn't part of his new plastic shaman lifestyle, and doesn't want to understand anything from our word. His mind is set... his life was boring, he did some acids or shrooms, found a way to cover his drug habit, and now proclame it because now life rocks because he's fucked up. It's not the first time we see that kind of case...

It was okay in that time for those tribes to think you connect to the divine while getting poisoned. But times goes on... Now we all know there's a reason why all this effects are happening. People just need something sacred because their lifes are lame and needs something to believe in. Shrooms are easy targets.

And please... STOP TELLING PSYCHEDELICS ARE SPIRITUAL. It's just a way to defend yourself because the trip is different than crack or any other drugs. In the end, we all know it's dope.

Sometimes I'm getting tired of the way some "hippies" ACT.

 

I think this has gone round before... and it's way off topic for this thread... but while psychedelics on their own are worthless, combined with the proper place and time their use, for many thousands of years before dope was dope, opened people up to very interesting experiences.

Granted the rampant drug abuse in our country and others has broken down their original purpose so much it's almost irreconcilable to those still in modern society to have a pure experience on "natural" psychedlics. To dismiss many years of beautiful native teachings as "we all know it's dope" seems a little blanket to me, even though in this particular case, appropriate.

You said it yourself, you're being poisoned... is there nothing to learn from that experience? What makes it so unique that it's the one experience no learning can come from?

 

After reading and posting on this thread it has changed my attitude on drugs and community. I think drugs in general attract a lot of bad things from the human race with can be bad for community. If I was dealing with public relations at a community and someone asked if drugs were ok there I would say no...

I think rygoody and his trying to turn people into a mushroom cult is just an example of some of the negative aspects psychedelic drugs can attract.
And like gobot was saying all the flaked out pretend shamans at the rainbow gatherings and then you got A camp just examples of the negative side affects of drugs.

A lot of people use psychedelics for personal growth and to develop more personal awareness. And a lot of people use them for escape.
I like psychedelic drugs they have gave me many insights and pleasure but just drugs in general attract a lot of bullshit that is destructive to community.

The subject of psychedelic communities has been studied quite extensively back in the 60s and early 70s. When psychedelics first emerged people were very amazed and a lot of people thought those states of mind would lead to magical realms or what ever.
So a good number of people went out and bought large quantities of psychedelic drugs and went out and formed small lose communities based on the chemicals experiences. I think most popular conclusion people came to was “disillusionment”.
After a while most people probably found themselves in a strange place wondering what the hell they were doing with their life, which is called self-awareness.

All roads eventually lead to self.

.

 

Yeah, you got it bro, all I meant is that I'm sure the Natives wouldn't do it the way he would. I've seen to much shit based on drugs, psychedelic or not, to me, today it's all the same. If you would take the psychedelic drug, take off the highs and the trip itself, just let it be the "spiritual part" that you COULD have and see what happens. Sure thing, more than 95% of people will stop taking it, than someone just interested in the spiritual part know he could get the spiritual part WITHOUT the drug. It's not the mushies that make it spiritual, it's only you who makes the difference, the poison do the rest and shape some mystic. Once in a while I guess it's fine, but don't start a mystic industry, ya know..?

And don't get me wrong, psychedelic... it's like instant nirvana... don't claim to be spiritual when you don't even work your way up there. Meditating on psychedelics is like cheating in a game. You are too lazy to get to the top but you want it without efforts, every time you want, as fast as you want, just get some more. If that's what hippies are all about today... f... it... I'm not down with this shit.

 

Well that's a point, definitely. Occassionaly meditating with them as a tool can be an interesting experience; but I see what you're driving at and I agree with you. If the only time you've reached those planes of conciousness is from a drug experience then it certainly is a bit superficial.

I wouldn't spend too much time and worry what "hippies" are all about today. It's no different really. There have always been people trying o fast track it, you know? Just staying true to yourself is all you can really do, and let those who burn out, burn out where they will.

As sidd mentioned, self awareness arrives sooner or later.

 

Oh yea man, totally!
Like, I need my magic mushroom fix in the next hour or Im going to start puking! Let's see, $5.00 a hit of LSD x 30 in my pipe until my brain cuts off dopamine production, mulitply that by 7 days a week, 4 weeks a month, on average of course...
Shit when I cant get my psychedelic fix I start robbin my family members and steal from my son's collection just to get by. Shit is evil man, I wish I never started.

 

I didn't read the whole thread but why do you keep referring to psilocybin as poison? The Center for Disease Control has rated psilocybin as less toxic than asprin and people take asprin every day with little to no damage at all to their bodies. However, I'm not sure basing a community around a mushroom sacrement would be at all productive.

 

Well dude it is still a poison allbeit non lethal...

 

Than you should read it all.

 

Because you think it's only crackheads in drug rehabs.

If you wanna play that game I can play it too. You know what you said is less extreme than trying to make a commune proclaiming the psychedelic. That is crazy in it's own way. Have you ever seen a crackhead community?

Well I guess I'll stop posting in this thread, my point is said and I'm really sad that some people have nothing better to do with their 2 hands than taking drugs. Seem like our positions is clear, but no one will make me believe that any drugs are good and if you would be spiritual like you claim... you would respect yourself naturally the way life gave you birth and be who you really are, sober.

In the end you can shit on me, but do I fucking mind, I am happy sober and I don't need to alter my mind, because mine is just fine and I don't need to loose contact with myself.

Keep on fucking yourself up! It's so DAMN spiritual! yeah... hippies... fuck it.

 

I feel even calling them a posion is a vast exageration. Of course, too much of anything can be considered posionious that doesn't mean everything is. After spending a little time researching the toxicity of psilocybin, I am by no means an expert, but I can say with relative confidence that mushrooms are not what a person would typically consider posionous.

From erowid:

 

Hey man, no one is attacking your sober lifestyle choice, so why do you feel the need to attack my choice to eat some mushrooms every once in awhile? You have the right to say what you feel but how can you not expect someone to stick up for their ideals when you do the very same thing?
If you really think I spend every waking moment of my life high, and my 2 hands are only used to take drugs, then you are far from reality man. I am a father raising my son by myself, I go to work everyday, I have my own home, I am on parole and dont even smoke pot anymore. I meditate daily, I am in love with God and with life, and a few times a year for special occaisions, I eat some magic mushrooms for my own personal guidance. If that in your eyes makes me a drug addict junky who takes psychedelics to get high and that I am of the likes of a crack head, I dont know what to tell you. Your entitled to your opinion of me but it appears that you are making severe judgements on me based on a disagreement in a forum thread. I support anyone who desires to take psychedelic drugs, however this doesnt classify me as a crack head, I dont see where you are making this connection. Im sorry if in your life experiences psychedelics rubbed you or your friends a little to much in the wrong way but this isnt the case for everyone. Just because you have only experienced psychedelics to be a high and spirituality only applies to sobriety, doesnt make it a universal fact.
If anything all this wisdom you seem to possess in order to make this judgement on people like me should have taught you that everyone is different and to accept us for what we are, as different from you. But that's just my opinion, so whatever man.
Good health and God bless you Barb.
namaste

 

CSP101, less toxic is not equal to not toxic. That's the only point. No one is really concerned about it being a dangerous poison on par with hemlock or anything. But it is mildly toxic, that's all we were saying. But you're correct poisoning yourself is not a concern in the case of psychedelic mushrooms.

Barb, I see where your strong feelings come from and I've seen you and Relayer go at this convo before, heh. But I'm wondering what are your personal feelings;not necessarily choices for your own life... you've made those clear, but what is your thought in regards to actually using them spiritually as they were by native cultures?

I think we may share similar attitudes, but your feelings on particular instances seem to overshadow the main idea. Yes a lot of "hippies" abuse drugs, yes a lot of plastic shamans exist, yes drugs have been completely trivialized in a lot of the developed world. BUT is that something to blame on the drug and it's experience, or society and its lack of respect for anything in legitimate moderation?

Whether or not you chose to use drugs is irrelevant. We all have a beautiful ability of free choice. I just wonder why you let your frustration with a small group or individuals overshadow feelings on an entire issue.

I'm of the personal opinion that if drugs and alcohol were not controlled the abuse and trivialization would be virtually non-existent. (Though admittidly retracing steps is much more difficult than just taking the correct path the first time. So much so, the correct path may be out of reach entirely) As these items existed throughout humanity without the issues we now have (perhaps excepting opium which even in old times was subject to rampant abuse).

To hop onto another topic, I think that the restrictions were put in place to achieve the out of control situation we now have.

Spiritual growth of any kind is largely trivialized in the modern world. Religion, spirituality, meditation, rites of passage, psychedelic drug use, time spent isolated for personal growth and center... all of what previously defined a persons relationship with God, the earth, and the universe as a whole is now a trivial mess, replaced with prime-time and sensational news reports and drug busts. There's nothing stopping anyone from taking all the old roads... but yet, no one does.

I'm just not sure you give people a fair shake all the time. Not every drug user is fucked up and in a fog of their own spirituality. Just as not ever sober person who claims to be of spirit is as they appear either.

 

A lot of responsible people use psychedelic drugs and achieve positive benefits from them. Yes there are a lot of negative examples of drug abuse but people will abuse anything.

I really don’t think it is that horrible for hippies to drop out and use psychedelic drugs for a while. I’m not taking about making a cult and controlling people or any whacked shit like that but just taking sometime off and doing some self exploration even if it is with psychedelic drugs.

I think it is stupid to throw away a loving family or a position in life you worked years for to go sit in the woods and do psychedelic drugs.

But for the average person that does that, what are they losing? A job at McDonalds, The cheapest dingy apartment in town? An extra 25 cent an hour raise at Wal-Mart.

How horrible there are hippys having fun in the woods when they could be working at McDonalds.

Or they should all be spiritually sober like jimmy Swaggered or Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Some people get stuck in a mental rut and psychedelic drugs get them out of it. It can be some good medicine.

 

floydianslips definition of 'poison' -- "Something which I have deemed non-beneficial for making me money"

 

i wouldnt presume to be leading anything
your sticking the pecuiliarities of YOUR own subconcious to me

 

I would profess that psychedellics are the only real form of spirituality.
I use the trail of art left behind by a spiritual society as evidence of their continual progression in exploring the astral realms. And as far as I can tell, although eastern mythologies are excellent metaphysical constructions and I use their teachings alot myself. As far as 'spiritual progress' is concerned, things like Buddhism are at a dead stand still. There hasn't been any new modes of visual metaphor introduced to the religion for thousands of years. Just a rehashing and recreation of the same things, the same art. Everyone of Buddhist, sober, spiritual process is essentially climbing up the same ladder through the astral constructed by the thousands that came before them.
Which I would agree, there ladder through the astral will get you to the highest peak of existence and being. But to me, I do not consider 'spirituality' merely to be the rate at which you can subscribe to a set of notions and climb a pre-constructed ladder, that is what you call being a Buddhist, a Taoist etc. To me 'spirituality' is being a pioneer of the astral, constructing your own ladder up to the heavens. Spirituality is non-demonational, non-tradition based. It is individual.
And right now the only cultures I see producing radically new art themes, channelings of the astral, are those coming from the sect of psychedellic visionary art, which suggests to me, that is the only means by which you can be 'spiritual', as in still pioneer something new.

I am highly aware of the mishaps people have run into when following this way. I am quite aware of how many fell off the side and went into some less-than respectable states of being. And it seems to me the only thing you are trying to tell me is, "it will be diffucult". Well yes, I am quite aware of that. Come back to me when your argument base holds something more interesting than "following what I say will be easier". I am not the type of kid who, in high school says 'I wanna be an artist' then the friends say 'oh but you might not end up making a 50k a year salary like all of us going to college' 'Hm yes I better do that, that sounds easier' and then abondon all creative hope'.

And don't misunderstand, the 'opinion' I just expressed requires nothing more than art of purely sober-spiritual origins to start producing extraodinary things. All you have to do to 'prove' me wrong is merely do what you already claim you can do.

And that whole concept of 'plastic shaman' is just utter nonsense. You guys are aware that 'shamanic tradition and ritual' in traditional shamanic societies is COMPLETELY dependent on the personality of the shaman. Each shaman develops his/her own shamanic methods, seperate from any past scriptures or whatever. Each shaman gets dictated to them, at their awakening there means of shamanizing. The notion that you have to be raised under some shamanic guidance in order to recieve 'true shamanistic' ability is completely bullshit. In real shamanic societies, the elder shamans serve only to be there as almost emotional support as the initiating shaman goes through early stages of initiation, recieving there 'guidance' and traditions directly from contact with spirit. There are some art themes, there are some common archetypes presented in shamanistic cultures, but this is nowhere near something like Buddhism where you have an archetype to follow to 'enlightenment'. Shamanistic archetypes are basic anthropromorphizations of nature typically. When it really comes down to it, the only different between what you guys deem 'real shaman' and 'plastic shaman' is, " do they have brown skin and do they speak a funky language and come from the jungle?". Please... thats just absurd. Stop trying to pass your ignorance of these subjects and personal inexperience off as 'wisdom'.

 

What are you even talking about?

I define poison as a toxic chemical. (and a band of questionable talent) And I'm not even against magic mushrooms, so....

 

do you go around saying to people drinking coffee
"dont drink that poisin" ?
No. When the simple truth is, eat coffee beans and shrooms pound for pound and coffee beans will kill you first.
Your notion of 'poisin' and 'toxic' and where and how you decide to use it has absolutely no relation to objective notion of poisin or toxic. Your hinging it all on what youve deem to be subjectively appropriate

yes I am aware going around calling shrooms 'toxic' will get you more agreement than running around calling coffee 'toxic', but that doesn't mean any notion youve said about it has any value outside your own head.

 

Actually, yeah. I don't drink that shit, it's the man's drug. Same with fucking soda.

Dude your whacked out as fuck. Have you read ANYTHING i've typed? Have you comprehended any of it? I'm not against drugs. I'm not against drugs for spirituality. I use mushrooms. I never even called your crazy ass a plastic shaman. So wtf are you talking about subjectively appropriate.

If you had read what I was saying and understood it, you'd see I started using the term in order to ask Barb if he though there was nothing to gain from that, IN SUPPORT OF MUSHROOMS, since he claimed people who used them were only poisoning themselves.

Good luck getting your commune started, you've certainly got the communication skills of a leader.