Psychedelic Bump XVI

Certainly. Or pull more MK-Ultra type shit.

And Muslims, and "foreigners" and... and...

 

ooooooookay.

I'm not gonna start quoting each and every one of you because I seem to have opened up a hell of a can of worms and you all are pretty much saying the same thing, so I'll just go with this:

1 - First and foremost, I agree 100% on the ''just say know'' thing. In a perfect world, all drugs would be legal, information would be widely available and perhaps they could be regulated IF WE HAD A GOVERNMENT WE CAN TRUST. But the truth is, we are far from that.

2 - Yes, other substances can cause harm as well such as prescribed meds, alcohol, tobacco and so on - I never said they didnt - all I said is that the margin of error for some of those RC's is VERY small compared to other substances, and that that can become dangerous grounds real quick. Personally, even if I was a drug dealer I wouldn't sell RC's to just anyone.

 

You make a valid point. They can be dangerous. I think the general consensus among people in this thread though, is that illegality does nothing to sway that danger and if anything only increases it. It's easy for people to think that if a drug is dangerous then it should be illegal, because we're all so accustomed to that exact system that we all live with, but in doing that we bypass the logical thinking behind what consequences prohibition has. If a drug is dangerous and active in very small amounts, then there's ever more reason to keep it legal and regulate the trade and production as well as spread accurate knowledge in order to reduce the threat of anyone using the drug inappropriately. It will never be possible to rid the world of the irresponsible drug user, but prohibition only serves to increase the amount and frequency of irresponsible drug use.

 

shiv, i wouldn't sell RCs to just anyone either. regardless of age. i wouldn't give 2ce to an irresponsible adult. i guess i have in the past, but what can you do? i wouldn't do it again.

the margin of error with 2ce isn't really that much different than legal drugs. think about nicotine. a "normal" dose is one cigarette's worth, smoked. but some people chain smoke. think maybe 5 cigarettes in an hour? if you ATE those cigs, you very well might DIE.

now on to 2ce. a normal dose might be 20 mg orally. but snort 100 mg, and you might cause some real harm.

it's a factor of 5, plus a more potent ROA in both cases.

i could do the same thing with alcohol. takes maybe 5 or 6 beers to get a nice buzz. if i drank a whole 30 to myself, i would likely die. if i rectally administered that much, i'm definitely dead.

it's not hard for most people to know not to eat multiple cigarettes, or binge drink far beyond their personal limit. maybe because we learned about these drugs in health class and DARE. it's not hard for me to refrain from snorting LINES of 2ce, because i educated myself on that one. if the government wants to step in and ACTUALLY help, they could provide harm reduction information and regulate the distribution, such that it comes pre-dosed. that way people aren't working with large amounts of potent powder and making mistakes.

ya dig?

i hope you don't think we're all jumping down your throat, man. i'm not surprised that the government is trying to ban ____. what do you expect?

but i DO see a problem with it. not exactly sure which was you point unless i go back a re-read your post.

 

It sounds weird to you but it's logical to me to "pick one". I don't think they're all the same, simple as that. I think Jesus is very differently distinct from other religious figures. It's nonsense to think Jesus was another wise teacher to help better our lives. He states the only way to go to heaven is through him so he's either a madman or the actual one; no in-between.
I think it'd be hindering to spiritual growth to lump all god-figures into one.

 

did you watch the rational case for christ on netflix?

i heard that line on there

 

no I was summarizing a quote from c.s. lewis

I don't even know if Christ existed, but I'd like to search more instead of half-assing it and saying I tried.

 

how would someone metabolize a drug outside the stomach..
for instance traazadone metabolizes to mCPP right.. would a little fancy chemistry make a party drug from a useless drug.. not that mcpp is anymore useful. Im just wondering about some other ssris. like shuglin tweeking some serotonin molecule in the tihkal could tweeking these (possibly free hand out psychiatric drugs be worth it with some fancy chemisty.

pay no mind to me , i just got real high fir a min.

 

Perhaps a 2C-E or LSD weekend... it's been a while... 6 months since my last 2C-E trip and longer than that since my last LSD adventure.

 

Popularity, I have to agree and disagree. I completely agree that there is validity in being drawn to one particular deity-figure, because specific deities express specific aspects of the Divine. For instance, I find that your relationship to Christ does nothing to invalidate my ongoing infatuation with Krishna: they are equally valid paths to the same Thing, but they are NOT the same Thing. Christ embodies those aspects of Divinity that resonate with you, Krishna does the same for me, agnostic pantheistic notions for Mr Writer...So I do have to agree that a relationship to a specific deity is valid.

On the other hand, I think one mistakes in focusing on, or taking too literally, the part of Jesus' message in which he said "the only way to go to heaven is through me." We have been taught (by post-Christ, post-Nicea Christian doctrine) that "through me" means, "by means of belief in the historical fact of the Death and Resurrection, etc etc etc". HOWEVER, that interpretation is by no means the one we have to accept. Even St. Paul's interpretation is not truly, exactly identifiable with that of Jesus. When he said "through me," Jesus could (FOR INSTANCE) have meant "by means of the form of consciousness I embody" or "Through the practices of Virtue I espouse." It is reductive to think that Christ must have been speaking literally and referring specifically to orthodox devotion to Him alone.

"Christ is the icon of OUR capacity to realize OUR God-nature."
****

As regards the ongoing RC discussion, I will add my voice to the chorus of people saying that ileegalizing DOES NOT mitigate the harms of any class of drugs.

There is a crucial distinction between the idea of "[bad/dangerous]" and the idea of "[should be illegal]". Things that are bad/dangerous are not inherently best-solved by legislation. Some times black-marketization makes certain problems worse. Legislation should not simply posit harms to society, it should actually have to help alleviate those harms. If we do not observe this distinction, we are quite literally legislating morality.

It's like saying "death is bad, so let's outlaw dying"...dying goes on unabated! You've just made everyone who dies a criminal, meanwhile the causes of death are neglected, nobody tries to cure cancer etc etc... Our resources would be better spent on harm reduction, which actually reduces. the. harms.

So, I agree that RC's CAN be bad/dangerous; it does not therefore follow that I agree they should be illegal

 

I've brought this up before during a conversation like this and I am going to do it again.

Look at Portugal, they decriminalized drugs and now if one were to get caught, instead of getting thrown into prison they give treatment. Deaths by overdose, HIV from using dirty needles, and drug related crime have dropped and The overall use of drugs have declined. Dealers and traffickers are still jailed. Spain and Italy have also gone with this plan with success.

Imagine if research chemicals were treated in this same way. They would be kept out of stores which is how this 'scene' exploded into the general public and eventually it would simmer back down to the way it was.

No matter what, some idiot is gonna die and recieve a darwin award.

 

This is the best fucking thing ever. NOT just about weed, it applies to psych's as well: McKenna, Andrew Weill and a couple others:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgSP_d_0Ldo&feature=related"]Terence McKenna Weed

 

I agree. Again, I am against prohibition as well, but the way our society is made, we're a loooooooooong way from these things being legalized. Some from a strictly harm reduction standpoint, working with what we have at the moment, the selfless thing would be to make those things harder to get our hands on them. But I do like having access to those things so I'm not going to pretend I'm pro prohibition haha.

Theres not a big difference between 20 mgs and 100mgs though, and the amount of time it takes to ingest is... instant.

completely! :2thumbsup:

Absolutely not, we're having a conversation here, I love you guys! :sunny:

That's AWESOME. I didn't know portugal and spain had done that... Maybe I'm wrong when I say our society is super far from proprely regulating and educating when it comes to those things. I'd be happy about it

 

I gotta cut back on my weed to maybe just twice a week. I do feel better if I use it only once/twice weekly.

 

i should cut back on my weed usage too. or at least switch to primarily vaporizing. *insert bong rip as we speak*


you guys remember my bloody nose on my LSD + 2cb trip? i had the WORST one of my life this morning. guess i blew my nose a bit too hard, and blood started FLOWING. my doctor taught me how to make a toilet paper "tampon" and shove it up my nose to help it clot. well this time it wasn't working!

blood was soaking through the TP, dripping on the floor. completely filling my nose until it was spilling down the back of my throat. i thought i was gonna have to go to the fuckin hospital, and i wasn't even tripping this time!!

i eventually stopped after ~10 or 15 minutes of pinching it shut.

OUR society probably is a long damn way away....

 

I always tell myself that I'm going to switch to vaporizing to save money and my lungs, but I just love smoking too much.

 

You forget though that people would be having fun. We cant have that now can we?

Not a psych but bump for 50mg of 4-MEC insufflated. Pretty nice

 

Bump for the beginning of march if everything goes as it should I'll be able to smoke weed again in April. God I want to smoke weed.

 

Vaping is alot smoother but I do like a joint once in a while, as it hits you harder.

 

yeah, i like ripping my bong once in a while as well.

i've cut my weed usage back quite a bit over the last couple of weeks. i generally just smoke at the end of the night now, when i have everything done that i need to get done, and i can just relax for an hour or two and listen to records or read a book. before, i'd smoke as soon as i got home from work and then keep going all night. i have a friend who is now smoking a half ounce of high-grade weed ($130/ho usually) each week, and seeing how much he smokes really made me re-evaluate my own usage.