Question on Political Stances of Those here

An insufferable whiner who wants to take over every thread with whining about America.

 

socially liberal: freedoms for all, not just people like me or those i agree with. so when i say socially liberal i actually mean it.

as far as foreign and fiscal policy, i don't know. i'm still learning a lot about those things. and i don't believe war is justified.

 

^^Hiptastic: Fiscally conservative global market economist and nerdish opportunist.

Let's keep the heat at medium, shall we?

 

Mad

LOL – I think you know or should since we’ve discussed it several times that I support Keynesian economics which is a long way removed from communism. So I presume your statement was just a bit of silly joshing.

I mean I never said for instance that “being for a free market makes people far right” I’m saying that it is those on the right that support more levels of ‘free market’ some with a bit of regulation and oversight attached but the more dogmatically ideological are the ones pushing for deregulated markets, a kind of social Darwinist free for all.

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Earthmother

But you would like to take away all rules, stores, money, government, welfare, healthcare and modern medicine, and you seem to acknowledge and accept that the result of this would be the death of millions but that you’d still desire it.

Is this wrong if so in what way?

Then you claim to be against murder and war.

Anyway I’m saying that what you have said on numerous occasions seem to be based within a right wing mindset. The problem is that you seem unwilling to discuss things in an open and honest way because it then becomes clear just how right wing you are.

The point being that some peoples perceptions of themselves seem to be at odds with the views they express, either because of a lack of self awareness or because they’re being dishonest.

Which is why I gave my warning to Vamp

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Hipstatic

So could you explain the general outlook of a moderate right wing libertarian?

I’m intrigued.

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Sun

They want to legalise all drugs and I don’t know of any left wingers who wanted to legalize drugs, like the libertarians do; theirs is a particularly right wing, free market approach.

This would go off at too much of a tangent so I’ll begin another thread on the subject.

 

I'm not a right wing libertarian and I don't think the term even makes sense, as I pointed out.

So I'm not sure why you would even ask.

 

Not political, but I guess that my beliefs are more towards libertarian.

Or like they say in New Mexico " I don't care what you do...,.., just don't get any on me while you do it"

Peace
Dan

 

hipstatic

But you are a right winger who claims to be a libertarian so you are…let us say a…right wing libertarian?

Ok please can you give me your argument for believing it doesn’t make sense, beyond that is just telling me it doesn’t make sense?

 

It's funny you would say this because, as a radical libertarian, I always thought left-wing concepts such as 'libertarian socialism' were oxymorons.

Abortion and capital punishment are two of the most difficult issues to deal with, but I'd say I'm pro-abortion and anti-capital punishment. I'm against gun control. Drugs should be legalized. The federal government is far too powerful. If we cannot transfer all of its duties to the private sector (debatable), then they should at the very least be the duties of local governments. The bigger government gets, the more people it presides over, the more inefficient it is. I believe in open boarders but at the same time recognize that it's not my business because I don't live in a boarder state. So I say we leave our boarder policy up to those who are actually affected by it. I welcome globalization as it will undermine the nationstate. You can never make everyone's life bearable. For some people, living is going to be a chore. It's been that way since the dawn of time and that's how it will remain until the end. Attempts to change this fundamental truth result in oppression and unnecessary suffering.

 

Hipstatic is right wing in your mind only, he's never called himself a right wing libertarian. The whole basis of libertarianism, at least here in the states is the fact it doesn't follow the right-left spectrum. I think someone being socially liberal while economically "conservative" though technically beliving in free markets is the "liberal" thing to do just doesn't make sense in your brain.

 

Mad

He’s called himself a libertarian and his views from those he’s expressed seem to be right wing so…

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I’m going from what people say and their stance on the issues not from what they claim. I could claim that I don’t ‘follow the right-left spectrum’, but I wouldn’t lie like that because what I say and my stance on the issues are left leaning, so I’m honest and say openly that my views are of the left.

It would be nice if others were as honest.

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But what does ‘socially liberal’ mean?

The things that come up most are – legislation of drugs – gay marriage – abortion.

As I’ve pointed out in another thread the right wing libertarian viewpoint on drugs legislation is based in right wing ideas.

They don’t really care about if people got marry it hasn’t got a negative economic impact (and might have a positive one). The left have a more caring approach and want to actively help.

Abortion, one right wing libertarian I talked to about this said he didn’t care if a woman wanted one as long as his taxes didn’t have to pay for it (oh and if they did have an unwanted kid he still didn’t want his taxes to pay for it).

If an idea is based within a right wing philosophical mindset it isn’t of the left, it remains of the right.

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Again, Hipstatic is not right wing, he's economically to the "right", though a true free market would in fact be the classically "liberal" thing to do.

You think your left wing dogma on society is better even though it's the same exact views as hipstatic or me because you think you're on some kind of crusade for social justice while we believe people have the fundamental human right to begin with. I think our so filthy right wing idea is better.

 

So hipststic isn’t right wing he just has right wing views?

He holds right wing views but isn’t a right winger?

The views he has are right wing but those views aren’t right wing (although they are)?

And if you mean classical liberalism, sometimes known as laissez faire liberalism, or market liberalism – that is usually seen as a right wing economic/social philosophy.

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This seems confused.

So now you are saying Hipstatic’s views are dogmatically left wing? That his views are EXACTLY the same as mine, and you think mine are left wing dogma – meaning you think… he’s left wing?

Trouble is I’ve talked with Hipstatic and his views on how society should be ordered are not the same as mine, so they can’t be EXACTLY like mine.

And do you honestly think my views are EXACTLY like yours?

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Yes I believe in social justice and I think people have fundamental rights as well, are you saying you don’t believe in social justice?

 

No, I am not a right winger. You have no special right to designate me "right wing". "

Claim? Why is it only a claim?

I have said this many times. I am not a right wing libertarian, the concept makes no sense as I have pointed out.

Clearly you are having a hard time here because you have an irresistable urge to call people right wing. When that doesn't fit you are at a complete loss so you just keep calling them right wing.

A libertarian combines elements of what are traditionally called 'right' and 'left' wing views. Simply put, libertarians value personal freedom and small government. Sometimes that means you support what are traditionally considered left wing views, usually on social issues (abortion, gay rights, drugs) while other times it means you support right wing views, usually on economic issues (state intervention in the economy, but also e.g. gun rights).

When I say I support civil partnerships for same sex couples, that makes me "right wing"?

"It would be nice if others were as honest [as me]". Big yourself up much Balbus?

Who's lying? I never said my views on individual issues couldn't be classified as right or left, or that right and left don't exist, I said my overall view is libertarian which simply cannot be summarised as either 'right' or 'left'.

It would all be a lot easier if we just divided it into big government/small government. This is where the difference lies. I think personal freedom is of the utmost importance, and when there is doubt I will always side with personal freedom. Whereas you and others on the orthodox, traditional left think government power is of the utmost importance, and if in doubt will always want to see government power and control take precedence over individual freedom.

 

Why is it ok to label people? Hip is who he is. I know from having dialogues with him who he is. Sometimes we've even agreed on an issue. Only marketers wish to pigeon hole people so that they can modify their campaigns to win consumers or advocates. Why can't we all just be who we are? Or would that throw a monkey wrench into the program marketers have for us? They wouldn't be able to sell their services?

 

Where are you on abortion?

 

What exactly was GW?

 

:hat:I am libertarian I guess vote mostly dem some rep I think they are all republicrats just trying to get elected so they can keep lying to us. I Want to keep my shotgun. I think gov should stay out of our lives, legalize mj, and create a north american union of canada us and mexico no more border problems. Our currency would be worth more globally with canada and mexico as partners instead of competitors:cheers2:

 

You think propping up Mexico's failed economy will make the dollar stronger...what have you been smoking?

 

:sifone:Mexican!lol Mexicos economy would not bring us down it would fuel cooperation and investment from mexican, american and canadian bussiness without cross border red tape and obstacles. Also residents could vacation in mexico and canada and vice versa without the restrictions. Only one small land border on the south to deal with. The Euro is stronger than the dollar. Just sayin

 

How is that? America had to bail Mexico out shortly after the passage of NAFTA, now their economy is threatened by both Swine Flu and Drug lords. I am not aware of many restrictions on vacationers in any of the three countries. As to the Euro I am happy Europe is happy with it. But I don't think the US populus has voted on a unified currency. I am aware GW and Cheney tried to pass things through the SPP, but the fact is this is the US and the SPP isn't the ruling the power.

That would be like allowing insurance companies to set our health care policy.

But then Mexico would love to see all their illegal workers covered by our social security system. We already educate their children and provide them healthcare. Not to mention we support their economy through the purchase of the illegal drugs they transport and sell to our country.

Why don't we demonstrate we can deal with the borders already in place?