question(s) about the old testament

Thanks!!!

 

RE: I have always thought of the Old Testament as the story of the evolution of Judaism's understanding of the divine

Here's the problem. Some people think they're commandments to live by.

 

Well, the way I see it, the real problem is that too many people think their understanding of the divine is some kind complete picture that negates all others. But if you look at those Old Testament ideas that do not negate anyone else's connection with the divine, then you may recognize the O.T. as a rich vein of timeless wisdom.

As far as the commandments are concerned - Don't kill, Don't steal, Respect the Divine, Don't tell lies about your neighbor, and, for God's sake, keep your hands off of his wife - I can live with these. I find it prohibitively difficult to keep up with my sacrificial burnt offerings, however, and I do have an occasionally irresistable fondness for shellfish.

Peace and Love

 

Varuna, I agree that it isn't an either-or situation, but I'm also not a Christian. Most Christians I know use the OT only when pointing out moral failings of others like homosexuality, or when justifying moral travesties like slavery (not so much anymore for that one, though, haha). It's really more of a historical background (how we got here, why we need saving, the prophesies) than real important stuff. They usually focus almost exclusively on the NT, and generally base their religion on it. They say Jesus simplified it with his two commandments and that the OT isn't really useful anymore. I was simply pointing out, for those of that mindset, that if the NT replaces the OT, why not the Qur'an replace the NT?

But I agree, the scriptures are all basically saying the same thing, each in their own way, according to the culture of origin. There is also a lot of useless stuff in there too, though (the shellfish ban, to use your example). Again, I attribute this to the culture, not the divine.

 

I know what you mean, but believe it or not, enlightened Christians do live among us. They just don't get as much attention since they aren't saying outrageous and inherently antithetical things in judgement of their fellow humans' "moral failures." When it comes to recent, popular embodiments of Christianity, I think of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Sister Wendy (The Art Nun) and Gandhi, rather than Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson or Duhbya.

Well, this is messy stuff, isn't it?

I think it helps to think of Christianity as a path of spiritual education. Or rather, if you compare Christianity (and, for that matter, all religions, but especially the Western ones) to the process of getting a secular education, a lot of the mess is clarified.

For example, most people know the basics. They have been through the public education system and have probably graduated. Some go on to higher education. For those who realize the opportunity, those who have the talent, the temperament, the curiosity (and the resources) to gain a deeper and broader understanding, a well-trodden path is available. From a Master degree to a PhD to a Nobel Prize to breakthroughs that alter history, the possibilities may seem, literally, fantastic and are limited only by the individual's ability to comprehend and communicate to others the subtleties of his or her reality.

So, as I understand it, in this light the problem is simple - what many people see when they encounter popular embodiments of Christianity (such as Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson or Duhbya), is the equivalent of a first year student who has passed a class or two and now believes they are qualified to teach, or practice medicine or construct massive engineering projects or map the subatomic universe or . . . define the divine.

If I may risk the wrath of the "right," they are wrong. Jesus did not make the meaning of the Old Testament any less divine than it was previously, he simply humanized the divine. He expanded the understanding of the divine from the abstract to the human. He suggested that the Divine is not just some abstraction that lives over our heads, but that it is also very much alive in the spiritual reality of human beings and in our relationships with one another. Symbolically speaking, Jesus suggested that God can and should be known horizontally as well as vertically.

In the end, what Christianity teaches you is nothing more or less than how to realize what God is and therefore become fully human.

I don't have any argument to explain how one could believe that. That belief is, to me, incomprehensible. It is like saying Darwin's Law of Natural Selection was made obsolete by Crick and Watson's discovery of the DNA molecule, or the music of J.S. Bach was made obsolete by the music of the Beatles.

Yes. And when you experience the inspiration communicated by all of the scriptures, then the way they actually complement one another is truly mind-blowing, awe inspiring, consciousness expanding, enlightening, pick your adjective.

Peace and Love

 

RE: I think it helps to think of Christianity as a path of spiritual education

A fundamental view of Xtianity doesn't allow for it.

Here's Xtianity according to the Bible, in a nutshell.

You were born in sin. God hates you and wants you to burn forever.
BUT
If you join our special club (believe this, be baptised, follow these other laws) then you'll be OK.
AND
Here's a list of various rules and some interesting stories involving people hacking each others' limbs off.

 

Whoever said the Fundamentalists should dictate your understanding? Consider the idea that you may be attributing far more authority to the Fundamentalists than they may legitimately claim.

Fundamentalists are really good at reciting the traditional mantra's (Yes, the Western religions do have mantra's). But now, as much as ever, it seems evident that the Fundamentalists don't necessarily understand the Fundamentals.

Go ahead, ask your favorite fundamentalist to explain the meaning of his or her beliefs. Ask how the phrase "Love your enemies" translates into "kill the infidels."

Your understanding shouldn't be diminished by the limits of anyone else's understanding. There is far more to all of this and you will miss much of it if you insist on seeing less of it.

Peace and Love