Question that proves god wrong?

Pure speculation which runs contrary to real world experiences.

 

There is no proof that consciousness stops after death, only that it stops functioning within the brain, what if consciousness is something totally seperate and self-sustaining?

Ofcourse, I knew you were going to brush me off.

My experiences are different, I have enough proof for myself, I don't need you to validate that for me. It's too bad others can't experience what I have. Preach to me all you want that it's by "chance" blah,blah,blah. It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not, doesn't make it any less true.

 

There's the 'what if'. Ok, that's your hypothesis. Anyone can come up with dozens of hypotheses. What if your consciousness is transmitted to an alien race who uses it for entertainment. What if your consciousness haunts the minds of all the worms who eat you when you die. What if... what if... For your hypothesis to have any merit it needs to pass a test, like a prediction. You would say consciousness continues after death so ____ would happen. And then you would test that. If your prediction is validated then you're on to something. Otherwise you're just speculating. How do we know that your hypothesis is any more valid than anyone elses speculation?

So without any confirmation to your speculation, we go with what we know. Consciousness is shown to be affected by changes to the physical structure of the brain. Every degredation of the physical structure of the brain further impairs consciousness. Follow that to its conclusion and consciousness is tied to the brain.

I'm not brushing you off. You're speculating and I called you on it.

If you've experienced some hint that indicates that consciousness remains after death then you have a leg up on all the other neurologists out there studying consciousness. You have insight into post death consciousness. You can use that experience to design an experiment to show that it exists after death. More power to you!

 

You believe in genetics, don't you? You know, if you have red hair, its something that was passed down the gene pool to you long ago, by people you never met.

In this same way, since we as humans are creations, we in turn have the power of creation within us. Someone created your nice avatar. They did so because they are so closely related to the creator god. The only thing that really separated us from that is our own minds. We created an identity of our own, because as humans, thats what we do. In doing so, we have greatly diminshed our ability to express creation anywhere but here.

To venture outside of the personal "I", is to witness the totality of creation.

There is no more this or that. Light or dark. Evil or good.

Creation and destruction dance hand in hand. A wonderful ballet of swirling energies that can become whatever you want.

But if you belong to the mind, an undisciplined mind, what you want can do your human self damage. Thats why until you've mastered yourself, you don't get to play with the good stuff.



x

 

If someone runs out and removes one of your tires while you're caught in traffic, do you die? No.

It affects your ability to move around, and thats all.

The body is only a vehicle. What happens to it has no effect on the conciousness that drives it around.


x

 

I'm not talking about just any part of the body. I'm talking about the brain.

 

You might as well be talking about your gall bladder. It changes nothing.

The brain is just the onboard computer. The mind is just the software. It allows the joining of spirit and physical matter. While the mind is regarded as the seat of conciousness, it has a source beyond it's own ability to percieve.

The mind cannot see beyond the world it projects around you, but it can accumulate evidence that there might be something beyond it.

As this evidence accumulates, a spiritual path begins.



x

 

Oh I bet I know what's going to happen. One of you is going to finally prove the other wrong and the other will say "oh how silly I've been all these years"

 

LOL doubtful I know. But once he starts with this "It allows the joining of spirit and physical matter. While the mind is regarded as the seat of conciousness, it has a source beyond it's own ability to percieve.", then again this is all just pure speculation like Bl4ck3n3D tried. I mean, where does this come from? There is nothing to back this up!

 

Oh, there's plenty to back it up. The problem lies with your ability to perceive it.

And you have to, because without experiencing it yourself, you will never believe it. Not in a million years. Its too incredible. And unbelievable. And it's soooo unlike what religion paints it.

You're in a comfort zone as a human. You have no inclination to explore beyond your own yard and poo poo those who have.

The great majority of people are like yourself. You've been told the world is flat and you believe every word of it. Someday, you'll become brave enough to sail your little boat to the ends of the earth and find out the truth for yourself.

Till then, the Matrix has you.



x

 

You assume I'm siding with your position?

 

I agree with xexon.

The question itself is ridiculous, because you assume that God is a person. You can't lift up a rock if you are the rock.

 

Welcome to the Christian site, Mr. Stiffy. I'm sure you have the same sense of deja vue I have when I go over to check out the Atheist/Agnostic site--same arguments, same inconclusions. Fun for the religiously (or irreligiously) obsessed. As you know, I'm mystically inclined myself and tend to see God in every rock, tree and human face. But on this latest exchange, I'm inclined to agree with some of your points: (1) the "God is everything" idea makes it difficult to say that God is much of anything, and is a kind of bait and switch from Yaweh to an impersonal Universe; (2) there does seem to be ample evidence that our conscious minds are intimately tied to brain physiology and chemistry; although as you may recall I'm really awed by the subjective, phenomenological aspects of consciousness, I find it difficult to think of consciousness as a disembodied spiritual entity that can exist and function apart from a physical brain; and (3) I think there's a lot to be said for knowledge that's empirically grounded and testable; insights based on personal spiritual experiences of the kind I, Xexon, and some of the others on the site have had can be very real and life-changing, but it's understandable that those who haven't had them will be skeptical, and I think rightly so. I tend to reject similar assertions from those who claim to have paranormal experiences I haven't had myself out of a sense of respect for rationality. Skepticism is healthy. Every human reflects an aspect of God,and you reflect rationality. Namaste.

 

Some people just don't have the ability to say 'maybe'. I think this is a matter of a lack of conceptual thinking skills, than anything else.

 

1) the "God is everything" idea makes it difficult to say that God is much of anything, and is a kind of bait and switch from Yaweh to an impersonal Universe;

Does it necessarily have to be impersonal, or is that just an assumption?

There are too many straw man arguments being made, both for and against God - Way too many assumptions for my liking.

 

Embryonic development and birth is a cascading series of chemical reactions. Genetics provides a controlling mechanism for the exact series of reactions (i.e which proteins are expressed). In no way, shape or form is mass-energy being created.

The "creation" of an artistic work, a scientific paper, etc etc is not creation. it is rearranging matter in a controlled fashion. Ideas do not have corporate existance. One cannot point a finger and say "look, there's an idea". The only things we are able to create are things which have no material existance. We then rearrange matter in accordance with the picture in our heads. Like for instance me typing this message - my neurons send impulses to my muscles, which press down on the keys. the keys send electronic changes to the CPU. The pattern of energy (electrons) in the CPU is sent to the RAM. when I hit "post reply" there is an electrical/optical change in telephone wires, causing a magnetic change in the hipforums server's hard disk(s).

Nowhere in there is anything other than the intangible 'idea' of this post being created.

All humanity IS is a personal "I". Without that "I" there cannot be perception. or if there is perception, it's only at the crude level of nervous impulses.

Now HERE I agree with you. All those things are human constructs and lack existance.

 

You assume that I assumed you were siding with my position. Whatever side you're on, I thought what you said was funny.

 

thanks.

 

Or perhaps the problem is your ability to perceive it. A religious experience is something that can be brought on by trans-cranial magnetic stimulation. Perhaps this artificially replicates a phenomenon that exists in some peoples brains.

Thank you Okiefreak and thank you for your comments. Even though you are mystically inclined I think you are open-minded enough to look at this subject more objectively and I tend to respect your insights more since you don't just react, but think about what you say.

 

You might check out a recent article by Dr. George Bayer in New Astronomy, a refereed scientific journal, challenging the Law of Conservation of Mass-energy, or at least discussing a possible exception to it: George W. Bayer, "Non-Conservation of Energy by the Vacuum," New Astronomy, vol. 12, #1 (October, 2006).