Religion and new world order

No problem.

This is what Jesus actually said on the matter;
“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill; for truly I say to YOU that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place. (Matthew 5:17,18)

So, through Jesus the Law was fulfilled, through him all things took place.

What does that mean?

Paul explains at Ephesians 2:15;
By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees

And at Romans 7:6;
we have been discharged from the Law

That is not to say that there aren't lessons to be learned from a study of the law and the prophets but Christians are under no obligation to obey the Mosaic Law. And frankly since the earthly temple no longer exists the vast majority of the law can not be obeyed even if someone wanted to.

 

Interesting but it doesn't really say what he think it says.

Basically what it shows is that there are a lot of people who call themselves Christian that are not Christians.

 

I have seen the debate before. Reading between the lines and making vague interpretations might work if the religion also did not have the clause about changing what the bible says, and the issue of who is and is not a Christian after the fact will not hold water. I have lost count of how many people tell me Hitler was not a Christian, when in reality he was a Christian in good standing until he lost the war. A blind eye was turned when all he was killing were Jews and non-Christians. He even had the Catholic Church helping in Croatia for which many were convicted of Crimes against Humanity. He was a good Christian till he lost the war, than all of a sudden he was not a Christian after all. I see the bible as a violent book, and with history as a tool can show the violence it has spawned. Your statement is flawed logic and does not reflect reality.
When the bible was being edited about 135 years after the presumed death of the Jesus figure, who I think never existed, the items of the Old Testament were edited as well as the items from the New Testament. Many books were omitted due to disputes over their veracity, the ones added which included New and Old Testament where accepted as the work of god. With the exception of the admitted changes by the Catholic Church, and translation errors it has remained in its original form reflecting a violent drive to control humanity. This boils down to your bible having both Old and New Testament laws which are supposed to be the work of god. If you are a good Christian you accept both. If you don’t you are no better than I am in the eyes of the “good Christians” and they might come along and have to kill you too.

 

The Bible has been translated so many times since it was first written that maybe its not perfect....but that doesnt mean GOD isnt real....and that Jesus never existed

 

I find more proof of the non-existence of god and Jesus as I grow older. Just last week the world was told of the Higgs Boson Particle. For me and many other who have spent their lives in the field of science it was the last bit of proof. I now know were we came from and it was not from a god, or something supernatural. I have recognized the lack of proof for Jesus for most of my life. The Jesus myth is made up from several sun gods thousands of years before his claimed birth. He is a nice myth, but just never existed.

 

Thats where Faith enters , the belief in things that cannot be seen or proven.
I think its great to question , my mate is Agnostic and she holds true to her beliefs....and we have these same discussions all the time. I question Heaven as in the clouds , and Hell in he bowels of the earth...and I know the Bible is written so that it can be taken several different ways....but I KNOW theres a God , and Jesus , And Holy Ghost.

 

What is the difference between belief and faith. To me, belief is what you have when there is no evidence of something's existence. Faith is what you have when only the quality of something is in question, not its existence.

 

perhaps you have but having see it before does not make it any less valid.

No one is reading between the lines and making vague interpretations here. I have pointed you to exactly what the Bible says.

As for, the issue of who is and is not a Christian after the fact will not hold water, why not? I does so in every other facet of human life.

If someone calls them self a singer, guitarist, pianist or something else how do you you know whether that is true or not? Isn't it after the fact? Only after they have performed? Like Jesus said isn't it by their fruitage you will know them?

No true Christian had to wait for Hitler to lose the war for them to know Hitler was not a Christian in good standing.

You do not know your history, there were many Christians in the concentration camps, with the Jews, that did not support Hitler and did not think Hitler was a Christian in good standing.

Perhaps that should tell you something about the Catholic church but not about Christianity.

Again,no true Christian had to wait for Hitler to lose the war for them to know Hitler was not a Christian in good standing.

True the Bible does not pull it's punches when it shows human history and there is much violence recorded in it but then pick up any history book and it is mostly a record of human violence.

Actually I think I've shown that it is your reasoning that is flawed and does not reflect reality.

Yeah, right and the archeologists, that dug up the dead sea scrolls and all the other finds since that "editing", spent years counterfeiting them so they would say the same thing as the "edited" Bible we have now.

As a "good" Christian I do accept both the "new and old" testaments but as I pointed out the "new" testament says that Jesus has fulfilled the Law and so Christians are not under the law.

And as I pointed out if someone thinks they have the authority from God to kill others then they are not “good Christians” and that would include Hitler.

 

Really, perhaps that's what you are looking for.

Actually the world had already heard much about the Higgs Boson Particle long before now, it is that just recently scientists believe they have found proof of it. They're pretty sure but would like to do a little more checking.

Proof of what, that it exists?

You seem to be putting a lot of "faith" in a recently found particle.

Please tell me what year is it?
2012?
2012 years from what?
The myth of Jesus?

 

This is such a hard question , to be honest, I cant give you a good answer , if I could , I would....its one of those things that is easier to FEEL than to explain, Im sorry.

 

faith [fayth]
(plural faiths)
n
1. belief or trust: belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof
I wouldn't put my faith in him to straighten things out.

2. religion or religious group: a system of religious belief, or the group of people who adhere to it
3. trust in God: belief in and devotion to God
Her faith is unwavering.

4. set of beliefs: a strongly held set of beliefs or principles
people of different political faiths

5. loyalty: allegiance or loyalty to somebody or something


[13th century. Via Old French feid < Latin fides "trust, belief"]

 

be·lief [bi lf]
(plural be·liefs)
n
1. acceptance of truth of something: acceptance by the mind that something is true or real, often underpinned by an emotional or spiritual sense of certainty
belief in an afterlife

2. trust: confidence that somebody or something is good or will be effective
belief in democracy

3. something that somebody believes in: a statement, principle, or doctrine that a person or group accepts as true
4. opinion: an opinion, especially a firm and considered one
5. religious faith: faith in God or in a religion's gods


[12th century. Alteration of Old English gelēafa after believe ]

 

Thank You thedope , Im not so good with words sometimes.

 

Really why is that?

Really then why would I say;

Well they didn't and the "escape clause" says exactly what is says and I've shown that it says that Christians are not under the Mosaic Law. In fact the Mosaic Law is only for the nation of Israel and it never applied to "gentiles", which I am one, so the Mosaic Law has never applied to me and still does not.

My religion? I think not. That's a little like saying I'm responsible for what Hitler did because I'm mostly German. If fact if you stopped to realize that all Christian religions are not the same, instead of lumping them all together, you would see that Christians that believe as I do have been persecuted by those same "Christians" you condemn for those same 2000 years. We were the heretics tortured and killed by the "Christians" during the inquisition and the same Christians confined by by "Christian" Hitler in concentration camps.

No it isn't.

Although the "RRC" may be the foundation of the protestant denominations, it is not a foundation of what I believe. In fact other than the use of the name Jesus Christ there is very little I have in common with the beliefs of the Catholic Church.

You don't believe in God or religion but I see you believe in damnation and I don't even believe in that.

Christians are to be no part of the world and thus should not be engaged in politics.

If a person has joined an organization and follows all the rules of that organization, then that person is a member of that organization but when that person breaks those rules then that person can be said to be no longer a member of that group and any group has that right.

"If the musician was a musician", the key word being was.

"If a leader was accepted and held up as a standard bearer for a religion and then fell from grace in the view of history he would still be seen as a member of that religion" and that is true but the view of history is not what determines whether someone is a member of a religion or not. What determines membership, as I pointed out, is if a person has joined an organization and follows all the rules of that organization or not.

Hitler was never a member in good standing in true Christianity and even if he had been, he would have been removed as a member as soon as he became involved in politics, since Christians are to be no part of this world. That removal would have taken place long before he got around to wars and killing people in concentration camps, both also against what true Christians believe and would have meant he was no longer a member of true worship as well.

Glad you to hear you appreciate all life as do I.

 

Have you given us a source yet for your figures? I'm curious, because I've seen the 250,000,000 figure before, so it must be making the rounds from some atheist apologetics site. It is, quite frankly, fantastic. Without sources, I'd say you either made it up or are repeating rumors. How "scientific" is that?

 

He has faith in his fellow atheists.

 

I also wonder how that is counted. What does "Deaths caused by the Christian faith are well over 250,000,000" actually mean?

There is a Christian group, in California I believe, that is being studied because they tend to have a longer live span and yet scientists don't say; their Christian faith caused it but it's just the healthy lifestyle they live because of their Christian faith.

Do these "caused" deaths, you talk about, have a closer relationship than that.

 

As a point of reference, Courtois (1999) estimates that Communism (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot) resulted in 85 million to 100 million deaths, leading Rummel to comment that :"Of all religions, secular and otherwise," Marxism is "by far the bloodiest – bloodier than the Catholic Inquisition, the various Catholic crusades, and the Thirty Years War between Catholics and Protestants".
What religion were those Marxists? Oh, it was the non-religion of atheism.

Where Christians are concerned, most of that killing was done several centuries ago. We have the Crusades (5 million), the Inquisition (32,000 max), the Witch hunts (20-100 thousand), Thirty Years War (7.5 million), the Albigensian crusade ( 1 million); what else? Anyhow, we're uner 15 million. Looks like atheism is leading!

http://www.necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#European

 

This is an excerpt from a study performed by the University of Louisville in 2008. Dr. Sheikh covered the time span between 0 and 2008 recording all deaths related to religion of any type. He broke it down in several categories based on number of deaths, the philosophy or religion, and genocides. I found it of interest how Islam was one of the lower death tolls up to 2008. Here is his summary on deaths caused or related to the Christian faith. It is the best study I have seen on why we need to go to a total secular society. The full document can be found in the Library of Congress under “Death count”

“In comparative terms, we have found the open secret of world history to be that the Christian civilization is the most bellicose on all counts: It is the civilization which is responsible for the highest number of death in world history, between 119.32and 236.56 million (median: 177.94 million). This is over 30% of global fatalities for the period 0-2008 CE. In terms of number of instances of political violence, the Christian share is even higher, accounting for 166 events out of 321 in total (nearly 52%). Thus more than half of all major acts of political violence can be attributed to the Christian civilization. Finally, in terms of genocides too the Christian civilization has perpetrated nearly half of all genocides (14 out of 30, or 46.67%). Still, these 14 genocides have had a total death toll of 33.24 million, a whopping 65.50% of all genocide deaths. The Christian civilization, therefore, emerges as the most violent and genocidal in world history.”