Religion is dead

walatajidan:ahum 'ʔaḥraṣa 'ln:a'si ʕalay' ḥayaw'tinm wamina 'l:aðiyna 'ʔaʃrakuw' j yawad:u 'ʔaḥaduhum law yuʕam:aru 'ʔalfa sanatinm wama' huwa bimuzaḥziḥihiy mina 'lʕaða'bi 'ʔan yuʕam:ara ql' wa'll:ahu baṣiyrunm bima' yaʕmaluwna

Palmer

And they follow that which the devils recited against Solomon's kingdom;--it was not Solomon who misbelieved 1, but the devils who misbelieved, teaching men sorcery,--and what has been revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Hârût and Mârût 2 yet these taught no one until they said, 'We are but a temptation, so do not misbelieve.'

Pickthall (first name mohammad.)

And thou wilt find them greediest of mankind for life and (greedier) than the idolaters. (Each) one of them would like to be allowed to live a thousand years. And to live (a thousand years) would be no means remove him from the doom. Allah is Seer of what they do.


this is what i found on sacred-texts.com

it doesn't actually say jews in that line, so i read it from the beginning. this section of the qu'ran seems to be talking about all disbelievers, not jews.it says people of israel-referring to jews, christians, and some other group-who don't actually believe like they say they do. it talks about people who twist the word of sacred scriptures (sound familiar?) for their own benefit, people who say they believe to fit in, etc. it basically says there is no point in preaching, because disbelievers will not believe. paintballer-if you find more accurate info, let me know. i only spent a couple of minutes on this-i'm kinda busy.

 

what's more, it does seem to be judgemental-not a surprise in organized faith-but it doesn't say these people should be killed by muslims. it pretty obviously declares that allah will take care of that.

 

I would still like to discuss the original text with another who is more fluent in Arabic, but here is a somewhat decent translation of Surah II:96:
-And you will most certainly find them the greediest of men for life than even those who are polytheists; every one of them loves that he should be granted a life of a thousand years, and his geing granted a long life will in now remove him further of from the chastisement, and Allah sees what they do.

It's not exact by any means, and it is very similar to what you found yessiam2, but hopefully I can post a better translation shortly. But yes, it by no means is talking to the Jews, it is talking about all who are against God, if anything it's definately not talking to the Jews. Remember, Jews and Christians are People of the Book.

You can see that bongish's translation:
-Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell.

Is horribly twisted, it's translated incorrectly and with a bias, never does anything about the Jews or hell appear in the original scripture, it has been added in. Bongish, you can't possibly accept any truth in your source.

 

Didn't Mohammad label the Jews "Hypocrites"? Wouldn't this indicate he did not consider them worthy?

 

Not to my knowledge, but I know it does not say so in the Qur'an. Judaism and Islam have many things in common, the basic beliefs are somewhat varied but many practices are shared between the two religions.

 

I read the whole story about him fighting the Jews in the desert whom he called hypocrites in some old encyclopedia, so it was prolly a poor translation.

 

Ah, I know what it is you are refering to. You are talking of a faulty alliance between the Moslems and a few Jewish and pagan tribes in Medina; while 'hypocracy' would still not be an accurate descriptor, note that it had nothing to do with religion and was pure politics.

 

Can you give the better translation? "Liars" maybe?

 

You're missing the point; regardless of what he did or didn't say, if he said anything it was not about Judaism as a religion, it was about these specific tribes in a political sense, not religious.

 

No I got what you meant. I was just wondering the more accurate translation of what he called the rival tribe. No biggie.

 

Also, would you call Moslem sects of the Sufis, Aghakhanis, Dawoodi Bohras, and Qadianis the most peace loving? Which is the most peace loving of these, and would you add any other sects to the list. And which sects are the most dangerous?

 

I apologize, my misunderstanding. While there was never any actual name calling (that I am aware of) I am almost sure you are referring to the general thought towards the two Jewish tribes. Two members of the Jewish tribes tried to assassinate Muhammad, and while I am not saying they were solely self-influenced, they were seen as traitors, not hypocrites.

 

he probably called them jews, and if so, it was because that's what that group of people called themselves-not because he was referring to all jews. kind of like one of those logical comparison questions they have on those online IQ tests.

 

Muhammad was considered Jewish, same as Jesus right? Or was he Christian?

 

didn't see this page before i posted. guess my post was kind of unneeded. let's pretend it didn't happen.

 

Ah, I'm afraid I cannot help much here, I am Sunni and focus around Sunni faith; I recognize other sects politically, but feel they are not true Islam. I am only really familiar with the Sufi, and not very at that. I understand they tend to be isolated as well as peaceful. From my limited knowledge I know the Dawoodi Bohras are corrupted, using religious power for personal gain. As for the Ahmadi, I know virtually nothing of them; I don't believe I've even heard of the Aghakhani.

I noticed you did not include Sunni or Shi'a, so I'm guessing you already have at least some knowledge upon them. I would like to add that I in no way support the Shi'a, justify their beliefs, or recognize them as Muslims. As you know, sex outside of marriage is against religion. For example, the Shi'a believe in a marriage lasting about a day purely to engage in sexual activity, not for procreation either. Saddam Hussein is a Shi'a, as well as nearly all of the Muslims shown on the media. The media has a way of treating Shi'a beliefs as Islam as a whole, while it is most definately not the case seeing as Shi'as are among a very small minority. I was watching a recent interview with the head of the U.S. Army in Iraq; he was asked whether he knew the difference between a Sunni and a Shi'a, and he did not. I know this does not pertain to your question but I would just like to sieze the oppurtunity to point out some of the flawed information that seems to be circulating our nation.. =/

 

Yes, as a matter of fact he was.

 

How can you say he is by no means talking about Jews? First of all he’s talking about anyone who doesn’t follow your God Allah



I was curious so I downloaded an English translation from a peaceful, honest looking Muslim web site and found this same paragraph in question. It’s probably a “toned down” translation but still accurate. The version I have says “Wrongdoers” in place of “Jews” but the previous paragraph is talking about how Moses “did them wrong by following another God” so it is absolutely clear that they are indeed talking about Jews as we know them today. So the quote is essentially accurate.



Another thing that seems to prevail in almost every page of this book is how all the non-believers, anyone with any sort of opposition to Allah will be dealt with and suffer most grievous eternal consequences. Opposition is even too strong of a word, anyone with an independent thought that differs from the word of Allah as told by Mohamed.

Basically the book is 300+ pages pre-medieval, childish name-calling, “My God is better than your good, nah nah ne nah nah…”. This is hatemongering WAR FUEL that about a billion people orbit their lives around. It has destroyed as many lives as it has brought the promise of paradise to. There will never be peace on earth as long as children are being brainwashed to hate. This chain of madness, circle of hate and destruction has got to be broken!!!!!! You just can't deny it!!

 

allah is their word for god. it's the same god-they even mention their angels talked to moses. i read it, man, and it talks badly of the followers of moses who chose to be idolators-as an example of non-believers-not moses himself. as far as these non-believers suffering, that is a universal idea. the qu'ran is just more graphic-not even much more graphic than the bible. it isn't saying that its followers should cause this suffering, just that it will take place when one has no faith. for you to see so much negativity and hate in this, reflects your innerstate, and not that of the writer.

 

Did you not watch the video I talked about earlier? Do you ever see the news from the middle east? Where were you on 9-11? Millions of these people are acting on this hate, this is an undeniable fact!!! Mob scenes, violence and death threats over cartoons!!! What planet do you live on where this is not 100% obvious!!??

Are you honestly trying to tell me that you believe religious extremists don’t ever take violent action from this book? Are you fucking kidding me?????!!! That’s absolutely ludicrous!!! Open your eyes man!!!!