I agree, and I also think that by killing Saddam, the new 'order' in Iraq, along with the global powers who put them there have shown that they are really no better than Saddam, just better armed.
is it possible he might not even be dead, i mean he was loaded and had many connections that got effected when iraq got overpowered and saddam inprisoned. maybeit was a massive hoax setup, since i heard somewhere that hardly anyone even seen the body :S
He should have been sent to the Hague and tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. I won't shed a tear for Saddam, but I will for the state of the world. The death penalty, in all cases and against all victims, is an abhorrent punishment that should have no place in the civilised world and within liberal democracies built on the rule of law. Saddam's execution sets entirely the wrong tone for the new Iraq and for prospects of a humane and stable democracy there. The country has gone to hell, and I expect it will stay there for generations to come....
I hate to say it, but maybe what Iraq needs is a good old fashiohed Sunni dictator to get it back into shape. Things were undoubtedly bad under Saddam, but now they're far worse, and I for one can't see any solution coming soon. It is unspeakably sick that we as a nation have helped to destabilize Iraq and gone along with the US idea of 'justice'. However - it is worth noting that Saddam's death was very probably far less traumatic than the deaths of US criminals who get executed. Hanging if done right is pretty well instantaneous, whilst in the electric chair, the gas chamber, or under lethal injection it can take quite some time and I imagine be extremely painful. But I totally agree that he should have been tried by an international court. That was never on the cards though, as Bush and Blair seem determined to ignore and ride rough shod over international law. They too are criminals IMO.
I'm glad he is dead and watched with faint sorrow him be taken to the gallows. That feeling passed fairly quickly. I think it is unfair to try and 'blame' [illegal wars / none compliance with international law etc etc] anybody else apart from the Iraqi legal system, for his execution. It is within there system that he would face the death penalty, so he was. If any backlash occurs, it is there fault. I noted many Iraqis having no tears lost at his hanging and were glad. I think that opinion is what we should remember. I guess they have the capacity to be wrong, and we can disagree, i suppose. Ho hum.
Yep. Sometimes I need to remind myself with utter incredulity that the situation in Iraq was almost immeasurably better under Saddam's brutal dictatorship. Yes. As I pointed out on this forum a while ago, the amount of suffering directly caused by Blair and Bush in Iraq with the upholding of sanctions, bombing, war of aggression, the destabilising of the country and instigating a civil war rivals Saddam's bodycount. Their deliberate actions, with entirely predictable consequences, amount to a genocide. Justice for the people of Iraq? No. One of the people who screwed those people over has been killed, while those who are currently screwing them over and have caused them to die and suffer in their tens of thousands congratulate themselves on their fine upstanding moral values.
I never said it was. I'm just saying that to some, not all. It WAS 'justice'. It devides opinion there, just like here. Judging by your thoughts, i don't see you seeing it as 'justice' whomever claims it to be that. Even so, it IS 'justice' to some. Who are we to argue with that ?. Though i guess we have the right too. Again 'ho hum'.
Saddam was tried and convicted for the unlawful killings of 143 people in 1982. I would say the limited scope of the trial and the rushed execution made this quite clearly a show trial and if anything denies justice to the many thousands of other victims of Saddam's crimes. A full and complete trial investigating the circumstances of Saddam's many crimes against humanity was what was required if there was any hope of the Iraqi people coming to terms with this period of history and moving on. This kind of trial would of course take years. The trial and execution was rushed for political reasons - and despite their attempts to distance themselves from it, the process and outcome was almost certainly heavily influenced by the USA. You would be hard pressed to make a case that this was "justice" in the full sense of that word.
I agree with you. We can argue these points till we are blue in the face. I'm only disagreeing with your notion ''Justice for the people of Iraq? No..'' with ''For some, yes. You have to accept that some Iraqis will feel glad he is dead. However it came about.''. Maybe. I imagine, more than likely, the fact that he was approaching 70. Once that happened he would face life in prison, rather than the death penalty. Regardless of the amount of crimes he was or was not convicted of. I think those effected and wishing him dead, took solice in the fact he was convicted and is dead. We can throw accusations all over the place, but just like those that took part in the trial, we are going to view this through prejudiced eyes. Yours seemingly aimed at the US admin'. I'm not attempting to make the case for it being 'justice'. If one Iraqi person see's it as 'justice' that is ok with me, let them. They have that right.
It's a very bad idea for this travesty of justice set the tone for the new Iraqi legal system. Being "glad" that somebody is dead is the opposite of justice; it's purely vengeance. The relatives of Saddam's victims deserve to know what happened, and Saddam deserved a fair trial. Both were denied justice. That many people will rejoice, find solace, or be glad about his death is not in dispute, neither is it relevant to the idea of justice.
It may well be, but we denounce the idea that we are putting our beliefs onto them. Capital puishment will one day i imagine dissapear in Iraq. They just are not at where we are at [yet]. Maybe that way of thinking will never come, i do not know. Forgive me for removing a portion of your post, i don't wish to repeat myself. These are my words [being glad]. If i said ''many say justice was served'' . I don't think i would be wrong. It does not require Saddam to be alive to find out what happened. He was hardly going to give up any further information imho. I'm not going to get into if it was a fair trial, as i fear that is based on a prejudice. You can believe it was not, i'll just say it was a trial. It satisfied, the Iraqi goverment and the majority of political partys. You were seemingly negating the legitimate notion that some will find it to be justice, that is all i was pointing out. You can't say it was not deemed 'justice' in some peoples eyes, that is quite clearly untrue. You were seemingly stateing it was NOT justice for ALL Iraqis, how arrogant is that. If that was not your intent, i apologise. We all can debate this for ever more. Not something i personaly wish to do. I'm just pointing out that it was justice for a lot of people. Not all, but a vast amount of people, be they Iraqi or 'whatever'.
You are right that the trial was unfair. There was no way that Saddam could have got a fair trial because everyone is far too aware of his crimes. Saddam was hanged and prior to hanging was calm and as if he wanted it that way. He died as a Maryter-but life goes on. Saddam is yesterday's news just like the fall of communism and the Berlin Wall
That many will mistake this outcome for justice because they believe that vengeance and justice are interchangeable is irrelevant. While it's problematic to assume that justice is some kind of universal principle it's utterly redundant to claim that if one person calls, say, a home-owner shooting a burglar 'justice', then that automatically makes it so. There are widely accepted international standards and precedents informing our understanding of the notion of justice for crimes against humanity. Clearly this trial did not uphold these.
That was only the ones they showed you - its easy to get that impression from the news but I will never forget how one BBC broadcast seemingly showed a group of British soldiers being interviewed before a battle then they showed a supposedly previous interview with the men they were fighting. The men they interviewed wore headscarves and robes but they were wearing British army boots and carrying british rifles - the worst part was - one man was holding his hand up to stop his false beard from falling off and anothers robe flapped open to reveal his british army uniform underneath in the background - The one point being that those brits they interviewed dressed up as iraqi soldiers they were the very same brits. I slowed that clip down - freeze framed it and showed it to everyone I know and now hundreds know what a sham and a scam the propoganda war is of course those fake iraqi soldiers were talking about beheading people etc its all a fake - the whole situation there is a fake and saddams trial is nothing but political whitewash - the second point being that the bbc is far from unbiased and did not seek out those who really do feel the west went too far
My brother.. I know you may think Suddam is innocent, but isn't it interesting that every time there were heated exchange of words, Suddam made it clear that he was in charge and that it didnt' seem to matter who got in his way.. he killed them. This isn't a man who respected freedom and justice for all. There is a video of him in the 1970s (early 80s?) when he took controll of Iraq in which he started calling out names to those in the audience of his inaugural and he had them executed one by one. I'm happy he got what he deserved.. even if it isn't considered humane.. this man was worst then an Angry out of control animal.
How can you think the british or american government is any better you should watch this video http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html what about the 10 IT professionals that worked for marconi executed by the british in the 1980's - what about the chemical weapons expert they executed - Dr David Kelly? What about all the executions the capitalists make that their news doesnt show? You seem to forget that the only people doing the executing is the british and americans - at the time you speak about, Hussein was in the employment of the CIA and was acting under orders - just as he was when he killed those villagers with the chemicals the brits and USA sold him Demand the state execution of the British and Americans that sold him those weapons and ordered him to kill those people .