Since someone wants to know, I post important information - a warning! The BBC film 'Secret Swami', shown to an audience of millions in Britain on June 17th, will eventually be seen on BBC World in over 225 million homes in over 200 countries. It is a gripping documentary masterpiece, rated pick of the week by all UK national newspapers. Read the UK Press reviews below summary: The film reveals the experiences of a former long-term devotee family whose lives were ruined for many years by Sai Baba's most despicable and threatening paedophile sexual abuse of their son. One must see this to understand the authenticity of the accounts of this family and another ex-devotee who was pressured into oral sex in 1976 by this pervert God. Sathya Sai Baba is a visibly a broken man who collapsed after the trial of his transparent faking under the cameras. Even so, the BBC could only show a tiny fraction of the film footage with Sai-abused young men etc. they took. After this film not a shadow of doubt that Sai Baba faked the "miracle" of the lingodbhava (very clear footage shows this) and collapsed helplessly after the event anyhow. This is the clear message left in the minds of sensible viewers who have not been indoctrinated with the insupportable avatar claims. (Why could the avatar not influence the outcome? Because he could not). The top leader of the world-wide Sai Organisation, 'Dr.' Michael Goldstein (filmed with hidden camera!!)came across very definitively as about the biggest ego and most distasteful ranting person - the sort of doctor that could have come direct from hell. He is doubtless wide open for losing his medical licence to practice after this otherwise comical performance of blinded and hypocritical faith! The Indian ex-Minister of Human Resources, Murali Manohar Joshi (who even funded astrology with Government funds... the human resource that superstitious India least needs) behaves a a most pompous an angry shouting bigshot with evil looking face as he defended Sai Baba. Issac Tigrett, who funded the hospital in Puttaparthi, is a loud fanatic, laughing in a near-manical way quite out of place and admitting firmly that he believes the sex allegations are true and it makes no difference whatever to his faith!! Nor would even murder by Sai Baba make any difference to him. Are these "human values"? Tigrett comes over as mentally and spiritually fairly deranged. Everyone who see this (except conscienceless cowards - persons of weak character and pitiful self-deceivers) are recoiling in revulsion at this.
So just for the record, what do the Vedas teach? By the Vedas, I mean the Vedas, not the Upanishads,Puranas, or other Indian texts.
First of all, the upanishads are a part of the vedas. All vedas. puranas and itihasas point to the same truth. That si that bramhan alone exists, whatever names we chose for it. Call it Rama, Krishna, bhagawan, alla, our father in heaven, god, whatever. That alone is. Infinite indivisible and eternal. And that infinite eternal self, is you, your true nature. You are not the body, nor the mind, nor even the intellect, these are but masks that hide your divinity, you are pure conciousness, untainted and infinite. That is what the vedas teach. I refuse to enter the baba debate. I am quite satisfied of his genuinenity. That is enough for me. No amount of threatening private messages from alamo are going to bother me. Also note that the guy alamo created a new id just to make that post. What do you fear! If you speak the truth, do so boldly, fear nothing! The truth will always protect you! Only liars and back stabbers have to hide behind guilty pseudonyms.
I'm sorry, but this is a somewhat simplistic idea of the complexities of the Veda. As for Alamo's post, he's seen the same tv documentary as myself, and millions of other British viewers - he is not lying, but accurately summarizes the content of the programme. There are allegations against Sai Baba - it's no use his followers thinking they will go away, or that one can simply hide one's head in the sand, or go into denial - How much of what devotees attribute to Baba is just a projection of something within themselves? How much is just a wish-fulfilment thing...and to what extent will people turn a blind eye to what is going on because they are afraid of disruption to their nice, comfortable 'spiritual' lives? If he's innocent, then why does he not encourage a full investigation, and prove that the claims of abuse etc, are false?
Claims of sexual abuse are far too easy to make and nearly impossible to refute. Videos can be faked quite easily, Ive done it myself for a school project. Its no big deal at all. As for that being a very simple summary of the teachigns of the vedas, yes it is, vedanta in essence is simple, there is but oe truth, repeated over and over, in various ways, so that all our possible doubts may be erased. But the truth is one. And I belive in baba, not because of the miracles, which are uite secondary, but because of his teachings, which are beautiful and simple and contain the essence of vedantic wisdom in them. Finally, why would my following baba or not excite you all so much...if you dont blieve in him, thats fine, it affects neither baba, nor me, nor the hundreds of thousands of devotees world wide.
Oh and not a single great realised master of our age has ever said a word against baba. All vedic scholars accept his veracity.
This is simply untrue. Srila Prabhupada, founder of the Krishna Copnsciousness society was a vedic scholar, recognized by the world as such, certainly didn't accept SB. And the same may be true for others. As for the BBC 'Secret Swami' documentary, I would reserve judgement until you have seen it. Unless of course your belief in SB would prevent you from watching it - Also, this thread does ask for opinions about SB-NOT only praise etc. from devotees. Many believe Baba to be a phoney, and devotees should be aware of this before entering into public debate.
Bhaskar demonstrates how little he knows of the four Vedas. He is too uninformed to know that there is not one single teaching anywhere in the whole of Sai Baba's output (which I know very well) which is original. It contains numerous direct plagiarisms (including 'My Life is My message, from Gandhi). The 'teaching' is actually full of vague, imprecise ideas and many penny proverbs and slogans, often in English given him by N. Kasturi (formerly a Ramakrishna follower). It is a hodge-podge amalgam of different and conflicting philosophies, a catch-all mass full of superstitious stories from the Puranas etc. presented as literal fact. The recorded teachings of Vivekananda, Shivananda, Aurobindo, Nisargadatta, Ramana Maharshi and scores more have a depth, clarity and accuracy nowhere evident in Sai Baba's teaching and without vague their sweeping generalisations, contradictions and masses of incorrect historical and religious statements (esp. about Christianity). Many of Sai Baba's 'howlers', false claims, self-contradictions and absurdities are easy to discover on the internet- try the website of Brian Steel for a start. Worst of all, Sai Baba does not follow his own teachings whenever it does not suit him! That is the ultimate test of a false guru. Bhaskar evidently lives in such a general state of youthful ignorance that he thinks the BBC and other European national broadcasters actually fake films to deceive the public. He is going to Puttaparthi where he will be induced by all those exaggerating, fanciful devotees who are trying to be 'mindless' into a subtle programme of further self-brainwashing!
Having lived in an ashram for large periods of my life and been in the influence of great mahatmas like swami chinmayananda, swami dayananda, swami chidananda and swami tejomayananda all through my life, I have had ample opportunity for scriptural study. I know a lot of the vedas, upanishads and puranas., definitely enough to understand the teachings therein far better than you have. I am not a follower of baba, he is nt my guru. I do recognise him as a mahatma and believe he is great. I dont understand why that bothers alano so much that he has to create a separate id on this site, merely in order to `warn` me. Baba teaches the path of bhakti yoga. I have read enough of the books released by him and his devotees to knwo that his teachings are very much consistent with vedanta, even though he himself has never had any scriptural study. As for originality, no guru since Bhagawan Veda Vyasa has had any original teachings, they only present the same vedantic truths as set down thousands of years ago. The presentation may differ according to the needs of the devotees. Babas devotees are often unlearned, of the less privileged classes, so often their intellectual capabilities arent very well developed. Therefore the teachings must be simple, which they are. Love all, do your duty, pray, have faith. This is what baba teaches. The internet is not a credible source of quotations. I have heard baba speak on several occasions, in recordings, on television and even in person. These I trust. I trust the books that his true devotees write. Above all I trust my heart. I thank you all for being so concerned with my well being as to send me anonymous emails warning me of imminent death, disaster and madness if I go to puttaparthi. It is nice to know that there are so many who care so much for me. However, it is my life and my choice. I have posted my last in this thread. God bless you, one and all! Hari Om!
I watched this programme and was shocked by it as i'd heard of the Sai Baba some years before. I found the people reporting crimes of abuse, seemed to be honest. Im not one to judge as i will never truly know whether or not Sia Baba did the disgusting crimes he's been accused of. But, if true.....he needs to be stopped right away!
Yes, I have never read anything by Sri Aurobindo, however, I will lay down an open challenge. Show me what he has said, I will bring you quotes from the upanishads, vedas, puranas or shankarabhashyas that will reflect the exact same thing. And I never said that Babas the right guru for everyone. His teachings dont suit me, although I can recognise the same truth in them. He isnt my guru. That doesnt make him less of a mahatma.
I have no intention of trying to summarize the teachings of anyone. If you are interested, check it out for yourself. If you believe in SB, thats your affair. I think there are real concerns over his authenticity, and his actions.
I guess you have not yet mastered the art of mastering your ego, isn't it? Shame really, since a big part of Sai Baba's teachings are about killing the ego. By the way, thanks for telling us all of your "spiritual" affiliations. From following your posts throughout this thread I can see that you believe in a pseudo-intellectual philisophy called "Advaita" that is really the cause of the spiritual death of real Sanathana-dharma. Obviously I am intrigued to see you demonstrate your knowledge of the Shastras in support of this deviant philosophy, but let's leave that for now since the real topic of this thread is a homosexual paedophile and murderer called Sai Baba. Oh really? You could have fooled me! How come you're defending him so strongly then? You must admit that it must look very strange to see strong defences from a person who claims not to be a follower of SB? That's your problem and your opinion. There is a growing number of people who are able to see beyond the fake miracles and pomposity, and are actually able to acknowledge the humiliation and betrayal they feel when having the courage and strength to admit that they have followed a charlatan as "God Incarnate" for so many years. Really? Then why has he written so much about jnana in Jnana Vahini? Sorry, please demonstrate that SB teaches bhakti-yoga. There ar eplenty of us who have been his followers for many years and cannot corroborate the truth of your confident assertion. Why? Why perhaps because, Sai Baba teaches a hodge-podge of different things that all sounds very sweet like sugar, gift-wraps it with "smart" sayings and presents it as a "philosophy." What is even more hilarious is the number of people who actually fall for that rubbish. You are right that he has never had any scriptural study. Moreover, he never even had a complete high-school education. He left home to become a big guru at the age of 14, remember? Besides that, on what grounds do you claim that his teachings are "consistent with vedanta"? Do you happen to know Vedanta? If so, please demonstrate to me exactly how SB's teachings are consistent with Vedanta. Those of us who actually know something of Vedanta can easily show how SB is a guy who doesn't even have a clue of simple common-sense, what to speak of high Vedanta! Please, his 'Sutra Vani' is totally incomprehensible. Do you actually think that he or any of his followers would be able to stand their ground in a real philosophical/Vedantic debate? I think not. Well, this is your mistake. I thought you said above that you had "ample opportunity for scriptural study" and that you "know a lot of the vedas, upanishads and puranas". If what you say is true, then how did you just make the mistake of suggesting that Vedavyasa presented some original teachings? Surely you know that Vedavyasa simply compiled the shastras in written form and didn't actually present any of his own? Oh yes, and before you talk about "presenting the same Vedantic truths", please demonstrate what exactly you mean when you mention Vedanta. You're damn right that SB's devotees have underdeveloped intellectual capacities. That's probably why they fell for his cheap garbage in the first place. Sorry. It is a fact that whatever SB speaks in public is not accurately recorded in book form, and I have been a personal witness to this since I have sat at discourses that do not "officially" exist. Short of acquiring video and tape recordings of discourses, there is no way of actually knowing what he has said and didn't say. So all of the discourses that are contained in "Sathya Sai Speaks" and "Summer Showers" series, you trust these? I have pity. I feel more pity.
Would you be saying that if Sai Baba had abused you? You might like to try showing some sensitivity, you know. Okay, so I guess the BBC are a bunch of cheating liars then, since they have footage of SB not vomiting a lingam earlier this year! You still have to demonstrate how exactly SB's teachings are "vedantic." So I would suggest you do that before paying further lip service to concepts that you still have to demonstrate a knowledge about. Sorry, Sai Baba IS affected by bad press. Remember how he screamed at the top of his voice at Christmas 2000, in reaction to the expose of him published in India Today magazine? The British Press have run articles and TV reviews of the BBC documentary which have invited several angry responses by excitable devotees. Most of it has been utterly hilarious to read. So you cannot just sit there and say that "none of this affects you", because it does. I assume that his devotees are paying good attention to him when he exhorts his disciples not to react to good or bad situations but to remain calm. Such a shame they disobey him, isn't it? Which is? Really? Please show me where exactly this is stated in the shastras. And do not disappoint me by referring to 'ekam sat vipra bahudha vadanti', because that does not mean what you think it means. Then, pray tell, what the heck are you doing here?
It has been over two days and no reply from Bhaskar. This just goes to show that when you bluff, and someone calls your bluff, you will completely fail in your arguments.
It is a shame to see such untutored people as Bhaskar - living in a largely mythological world-view -swallowing the bait set out by the Sai people. Once hooked, they are soon landed and their minds gradually expire and they become part of a movement so big that the secret core is completely impenetrable to the huge majority. Attracted by a catch-all teaching of 'love' and service, they clap and enthuse from the periphery of the crowd, little knowing what is really going on, but accepting all the mind-binds and restraints on free speech and inquiry that mark every member of this sect... once just a sect, now closing ranks tighter and tighter against the outside world as a cult with much to hide, enforcing obedience on its members not to ask questions or look at the evidence. Evidently, Bhaskar was already a lost soul when he began to post here. I point this out for the record.
I have spoken to Bhaskar many times Alano and I don't find your statements true. He is connected to another guru nothing to do with Sai Baba. I very much doubt Bhaskar will leave his guru. From my talks with Bhaskar he meets many spiritual saints, and isn't a spokesperson for Sai Baba. He has never mentioned him to me before. Lets not use this forum to judge others, be it Bhaskar or Sai Baba, that job is God's not ours. Only God, Sai Baba and the people accusing him know the truth. Anything else is just opinion.
But Sai Baba is supposed to be God! So he and his adherents would have us believe --so we either judge for ourselves whether this is true (with whatever powers of discrimination are there) or accept uncritically what is probably untrue. If Baba has broken the law with regard to sexual misconduct, he should face human justice just like everyone else. I doubt you would want to leave it to God to deal with the 'ordinary' offender, so why should Baba be a special case? As for using the forum to attempt to assasinate the charachter of other forum users, I agree that this is foolish and achieves little, other than to show the ego of the person doing the posting for what it is.
