"Kriya Yoga Sutras of Patanjali and the Siddhas" by M. Govindan pgs 104, 105 & 158 The combination of these two seem to fit into your discussion. "III: 37 ~* These attainments are obstacles to cognitive absorption but are accomplishments in the waking state. *~ One should not become attached to these accomplishments (siddhis), however marvelous they may be from the worldly perspective. Making them one's goal will only delay the perfection of cognitive absorption (samadhi). Let them come but let them go. They are mere signposts along the way, and are by no means necessary. The Mother: on accomplishments (siddhis): "all those powers, gifts, constructions, manifestations, it all reminded me of the life of a traveling juggler. It's like a juggler's life - you go from fairground to fairground, displaying your feats of skill. There was a time when I saw all these things as something very nice, for widening my power of imagination so I could present these things to the Lord. But it is not necessary." There is excitement, it is like champagne bubbles, but it complicates things, it clouds the issue. You have to wait for the bubbles to subside before you can calmly set off again on your way toward the goal. II: 38 ~* By one established in chastity, vigor is gained. *~ Chastity (brahmacarya), is detachment from sexual fantasies. Fantasizing about sex, or indulging lustful feelings, dissipates and disperses the mind just as the physical acts of sex cause the loss of vital force. The cultivation of brahmacarya enables us to sublimate vital energy to awaken the higher centers of consciousness, and to turn the consciousness away from fleeting sense sensations and towards the ultimate inner source of joy. Even in marriage we should practice moderation with regard to sexual activity, and seek to transmute sexual energies through both practices and attitudes. We may see our spouse as a living embodiment of the Divine. By going above ourselves we can get out of problems, but the problems below are still there and need to be resolved. By going deep within to the emotional being and opening the heart-center to peace and untroubled aspiration for the Divine, chastity becomes effortless. But, as Sri Aurobindo puts it: when we cling to the "Thou Shalts" and the "Thou Shalt nots," what is harmful for one person may be helpful for another. What may be harmful under certain circumstances may be helpful in other conditions. What is done in a certain spirit may be disastrous, yet the same thing done in a quite different spirit would be innocuous, or even beneficial. There are many things to be considered: the spirit, the circumstances, the person, the need and the cast of the nature, the stage. That is why it is said that the guru must deal with each disciple according to his separate nature and accordingly guide his sadhana; even if it is the same line of sadhana for all, yet at every point for each it differs." Namaste and Bright Blessings, Om shanti shanti shanti.
sylvanlightning do you , actualy...... ..does anyone have any comments on my prev post ? . I am not going to sit hear and say i have had any personal experiances ...but just skipping over it and not comfronting it is not fair... humour me for a bit. http://hipforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=240528&postcount=60
I'm not quite sure what you are intending to say here. If you mean that there is anything in the philosophy of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother that would justify Sai Baba if he is guilty of the allegations of sexual abuse, implication in murder etc, then you are quite wrong. The following is a quote from 'The Sunlit Path', a record of sayings and conversations of the Mother 'Humanity has the sexual impulse in a way altogether natural, spontaneous and, I would say, legitimate.This impulse will naturally and spontaneously disappear with animality. Many other things will disappear, as for example the need to eat, and perhaps also the need to sleep in the way we sleep now. But the most conscious impulse in a superior humanity, which has continued as a source of ...bliss is a big word, but joy, delight - is certainly the sexual activity, and that will have absolutely no reason for existence in the functions of Nature when the need to create in that way will no longer exist. Therefore, the capacity of entering into relation with the joy of life will rise by one step, or will be oriented differently. But what the ancient aspirants had sought on principle - sexual negation - is an absurd thing, because this must be only for those who have gone beyond this stage and no longer have animality in them. And it must drop off naturally, without effort and without struggle. To make of it a centre of conflict and struggle is ridiculous. It is only when the consciousness ceases to be human that it drops off quite naturally.' So, if Baba is an Avatar, ie one whose consciousness is above the ordinary human level, why the need for sex? Especially illicit sex?
Beautiful quote by the Mother. Thank you so much. Very refreshing. My intention was to share poetic words of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother. I do not feel these words would justify Sai Baba .... in fact I really don't have the time or attention to linger on what if's .... just enjoyed sharing a quote by admired spiritual teachers. I felt the 2 presented sutras would address both how siddhas can be dangerous if the desire body has not been transformed and how sex needs to be held as sacred until it drops away naturally. That is still what I feel the two misunderstandings are in Sai Babas case... its less a matter of my inductive reasoning and more a matter of wanting to share some heartfelt words.
haha, I guess no one replied to this one, well...I think after seeing both of them... I don't think he is not God. Just because he can create vibhuti or sit there and make a necklace by using some cheap tricks does not make him God. If Krishna truly came upon this earth, he would be so attractive, so opulent and so- Godly divine that it would be impossible for people to accept he is not God.
Thanks for your kind words. I see now what you are saying. I too don't have time to concern myself with hypothetical scenarios - I do thogh have some concern that SB is misleading people. Shanti. BBB.
In the BBC 'Secret Swami' documentary, a stage magician was easily able to reproduce Baba's 'miracles'. As for the advent of Sri Krishna or any other Avatar, It is nice to think people would recognize, but in the past they have failed to do so - hence the crucifixion of Jesus, and in Mahabarata not all accept Krishna, despite His Opulences. Only the pure soul can recognize the Avatar.
Can some one come off a cloud for a minute or two please..i mean no offence but the crimes in the link are real ...i don't realy care if he is the second coming or whatever ...... these crimes are real and need dealing with . He is too powerful ... no person should be that powerful .. If you look at what is going on and remove religeon would anybody be so blase about it ..... NO.
No-one here on a cloud! Clearly, if Baba's crimes are real then he should be punished. If you read through this thread, you will find this view expressed by more than one poster. However, given SB's status, phoney as that may be, it seems very unlikely that any proper investigation will take place. Without that - ok, we can say he's a phoney - a charlatan - but we cannot establish his guilt or otherwise without a full judicial enquiry.
Sorry about that..a proper investigation should take place .. his status is self appointed and should not matter..ok so what can people do to make him face the situation after all this time..i just see a 'oh well life goes on' attitude ... i see reverance for the man not a lot of investigation of his non religous activities ?
The situation is this - the Indian autorities regard SB as beyond reproach - this was made clear in the 'Secret Swami' documentary I mentioned before, in an interview with an Indian govt. official. On one level you are quite right - SB is 'self-appointed' but his status is bouyed up by the devotion and belief of literally millions. Therefore it seems very unlikely that any kind of proper investigation will take place. What can be done? Not much I think, except to seek to confront Sb devotees with the very convincing allegations. However, even this doesn't promise much, as some say they already accept the allegations, but continue to follow Baba! For my part, I strongly suspect that SB is guilty, but even were he to be proven innocent, his teachings are on a pretty low level anyway. Perhaps some form of pressure could be brought to bear on the Indian authorities,in order to ensure an investigation does take place, but that's outside my field.
I think my actual problem is every religeon gets corrupted and their are people like SB that take advantage .... For instance ..You get some person who lives in a cave ... then you get people that think thats a good idea and move into their own cave before you know it you have the benedictine monks...and all the greed and harm they brought about. If their is one religeon that is not tarnished in anyway i would like too hear about it. If every person remained in their own personal cave ... the world would be a better place... I would rather get rid (religeon) of it all too be quite honest...its only causes harm unfortunatly.
Dear One, He will recieve what is coming to him. We are, after all, left with ourselves when all is said and done. The Karma of those he has hurt will cause more Karma for him... as it does for us all. I don't choose to tune my attention into certain frequencies ... its like becoming the essence of what you eat. If reverance at all exists its for his selfless acts done for spirit. Let the law enact its trials if people have been hurt by lawlessness... I do not feel either passion or aversion for him. Some would say acts of darkness trigger responses of light. Know that these little ones who are harmed by preying sexual hungers will be karmic catalysts for change. If you want to help perhaps prayer or sending your energetic attention to those who have been harmed would be sattvic or positive action for you. May all find their purer selves. Namaste
If i believed in Karma i would be at ease ... i don't , so peoples actions reactions and inactions trouble me.
You are right. We should feel neither passion nor aversion for him. If anything, SB is to be pitied as much as those he is alleged to have abused. I do believe in karma, and I wouldn't want the kind of kartma Sb must be accumulating to adhere to my being in any way. The problem on another level is that it does to some extent affect everybody, since we are all interelated. As long as we live on a planet where there are millions sunk in deepest ignorance, and grasping at any chance they percieve to move out of it towards some higher, spiritual life, there is always the chance of exploitation by unscrupulous charlatans who prey on what is a very real need. But they cheat themselves at the same time, because they are excluding the true light of the spirit, falsifying it, so they too can have no real access to it. It is not SB only, it is the falsification and even perversion of the truth that is the real problem. He is evidently just one human channel through which this is being enacted.
Check it out. The above article unearths stories of Sai Baba living in a cave during his youth and perforimg austerities there. These stories are not part of the usual hagiographies of Sai Baba and have been unearthed from two books by very old devotees of Sai Baba, one book contemporaneous and the other more recent. Sai Baba is displayed in the article to be very upset at his cave being found and even performing violent actions on two children for the innocent discovery of it. What does he have to hide?
I know its not much but ... thanks. I did right a bit of a rant , but then thought it's realy not going to achieve a lot so ... 'thanks' is the better option. I think i covered what i think in my prev posts..anyway
Actually, many people simply have not cared to sort through all the muck regarding Sathya Sai Baba and try to find the unbiased truth. This is the best site that gives an honest, sincere and open view regarding Sathya Sai Baba: http://www.vishvarupa.com/Fair-Is-Fair/Ex-Baba.com/exbaba-index.html Witness Information: http://www.vishvarupa.com/Fair-Is-Fair/Ex-Baba.com/Witnesses/exbaba-witnesses.html The Findings Information: http://www.vishvarupa.com/Fair-Is-Fair/Ex-Baba.com/Findings/exbaba-findings.html Online Petition Information: http://www.vishvarupa.com/Fair-Is-Fair/ 1993 Murders Info: http://www.vishvarupa.com/Fair-Is-Fair/Ex-Baba.com/Murders/exbaba-murders.html Why did UNESCO really Withdraw: http://www.vishvarupa.com/Fair-Is-Fair/Ex-Baba.com/unesco-withdraws.html Hope that helps.
Actually, many people simply have not cared to sort through all the propaganda regarding Sathya Sai Baba and try to find the unbiased truth. Neither do they even attempt to refute any of the serious allegations of paedophilia, sexual molestation, murders, etc. Instead, they spend all of their time inventing contradictions that do not exist and pretending that their "findings" actually have some basis. In the meantime the issue of Sai Baba's guilt in crimes is not cleared up by the misguided efforts of so-called devotees. Praising their site as "the best" is laughable when contradictions and inaccuracies have been pointed out in Gerald "Joe" Moreno's articles elsewhere.
This 'Joe', according to mails received by me from persons he has contacted, also lurks under the (self-flattering?) name 'Vishwarupa'' to run a Hindu-guru promotion website, where he presents photos of Swami Premananda (formerly of Tiruvannamalai). Just do a Google search and you will find it (as of 8 Nov. 04). Swami Premananda was found guilty in a Madras Court of rape and murder (of two Sri Lankan girls, proven by DNA samples taken from a foetus in one dead girl's womb) and Premananda is now in prison serving two life sentences in Tamil Nadu. The full documentation of this and the court verdict is available on Indian websites. This should be enough to show what Joe's fanatical guru-follower agenda is. He cares nothing for the law or justice in such cases, or he would have made Premananda's crimes clear to the public who may visit his website. His nit-picking at the Sai Baba exposures and complete avoidance of all the massive evidence he ignores is evidently in character.
