Say Goodbye to Our Democracy and Freedoms

Discussion in 'Democracy' started by erofant, Jul 1, 2021.

  1. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    34,772
    Likes Received:
    16,584
    Illegal to fuck a chicken in New York?? What is this world coming to?? ( Good thing I'm in Oregon. ):sunglasses:
     
  2. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    3,900
    Likes Received:
    2,206
    Good question. Maybe you use gasoline or diesel / transportation. Maybe you like inexpensive solar panels. Maybe you like to build and renovate and prefer to not have to get a second mortgage to git er done. Maybe you'd like a little more disposable income after groceries and rent. It all depends how you weigh the pros and cons.
     
  3. princess peedge

    princess peedge Members

    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    I like having the right to exist.
     
    kinulpture, scratcho, Timsk and 2 others like this.
  4. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    3,900
    Likes Received:
    2,206
    I guess that right is so normal that we take it for granted.
     
    kinulpture and Timsk like this.
  5. princess peedge

    princess peedge Members

    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    As a trans person, I don't have the luxury to take it for granted. I have to go through this nightmare every election.
     
    kinulpture, Tishomingo and scratcho like this.
  6. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    3,900
    Likes Received:
    2,206
    Why? Who are the individuals threatening your existence?
     
  7. princess peedge

    princess peedge Members

    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    I dont know all the names, but several governors of red states have either passed, or tried to pass, legislation banning access to healthcare for transgender Americans. While a lot of these laws were aimed at banning gender-affirming care for children, there were several that targeted adults as well.

    Banning access to the healthcare necessary for gender transition is to ban transitioning. Banning transitioning is banning trans people from existing. And trans people who can't transition are much more likely to turn to suicide or substance abuse.

    The right doesn't care.

    And aside from banning trans people from the US military, Trump has pledged to end protections for all LGBTQ+ people including a ban gender-affirming care. The conservatives have dreamed up the Presidential Transition Project, and Trump is on the campaign trail promising (or threatening, depending on who you are) to run every play if reelected.

    This isn't me saying "orange man bad." Trump has fired the first shots here. This is about personal identity and bodily autonomy. This is about my rights as an American--a veteran even--to simply exist.
     
    KathyL and scratcho like this.
  8. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    3,900
    Likes Received:
    2,206
    Well first I'll say that I feel you. We're always feeling pressure to be worried about various things from various sources though. And more often than not it's in the frame of a power play from some political figure, party, or agenda. Once you see it then it becomes obvious at every turn.

    If you have been led to believe that Trump is on the warpath against transgenders or any part of the nontraditional sexual community then you don't know Trump. He isn't out to get you or anybody else. Watch one of his rallies closely and listen carefully and you'll see he's a people pleaser. There are people of every persuasion who've come to see past the opposition rhetoric trying to paint him as every bad thing possible and now support him.

    Once you see the man behind the persona you'll see he has no agenda to come after trans or other people, neither does he want to ban abortion across the country. Moving issues to individual states to decide for themselves is a people pleaser move.

    The way I look at trans affirming care is have at it if you're an adult. I do not want to see any children goaded into any kind of alterations that would affect their natural growth into adulthood. I think that's potentially very harmful to them and it feels to me like anyone proposing that would have an evil heart. But whoever reaches natural adulthood and feels the need for transitioning, then by golly it's their life to pursue their own happiness. Just don't be messin' with the children.

    Now would Trump pass a care affirming ban? I think if a bill passed by Congress that puts limits on access then probably so, believing that's the will of the people. I don't see a snowball's chance in hell that could happen for adults. Us common sense proponents (including Trump) couldn't care less about stuff like that. For children, slim chance, but I can get behind banning transition efforts for children. I think that's the smart move.

    I haven't heard about these governors who you suggest have either passed, or tried to pass, legislation banning access to healthcare for transgender Americans. I'm pretty sure they don't exist.

    For starters, governors can't make law. Only the legislative bodies of representatives can make law. The governor can only affirm what they've passed or veto it. They can ask their legislative bodies to consider specific issues but can't force their hand. The representatives are supposed to listen to the will of the people and bring their positions to the chamber.

    If you look a little closer, the right really does care. I think moreso than the left when looking across the spectrum of overall well being. Yeah both sides can have their sticklers about particular issues but bear in mind, it's a big picture scenario as to how effectively we get to pursue our happiness. It does a person little good to get their way on one thing only to not be able to pursue it due to limitations in another area they left unconsidered.

    It's a mess out there but resist the temptation to fall victim to fearmongers, whoever they may be. It'll all be okay.

    Until the debt comes due, anyway. Cheers.
     
  9. granite45

    granite45 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    2,414
    Blah, blah,blah….I think princess knows better.
     
    kinulpture and KathyL like this.
  10. tjr1964

    tjr1964 Members

    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    506
    Putin lost the U.S. Election in 2020 and he will lose the U.S. Election in November 2024 .
    Trump ( Putin) lost in 2020, if you still take comfort in the Election steal BS, get help.
     
  11. tjr1964

    tjr1964 Members

    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    506
    Trump sucks, he is senile, a traitor and unfit for office .... if you can't see it, get help.
     
  12. tjr1964

    tjr1964 Members

    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    506
    I'm more than sure, if elected, Trump has no loyalty from the military, guaranteed, they'll handle Trump and send his KKKult to Guantanomo Bay, right along side Al Qaeda, ISIS, Kweef Anon and Hoothies.
     
  13. TheGreatShoeScam

    TheGreatShoeScam Members

    Messages:
    2,591
    Likes Received:
    1,142
    upload_2024-5-22_19-12-15.png

    Both sides are scary.
     
  14. KathyL

    KathyL Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    1,509
    It is truly scary that you believe that and have the right to vote. That is called having your head in the sand.

    2024 Anti-Trans Bills: Trans Legislation Tracker
     
  15. wilsjane

    wilsjane Nutty Professor HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    6,817
    Likes Received:
    5,665
    Plastic shingles to follow. :):(:(:(
     
  16. wilsjane

    wilsjane Nutty Professor HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    6,817
    Likes Received:
    5,665
    The problem is that a lot of us have our heads in the sand regarding things outside our own everyday remit.
    I would love to interview the people promoting these bills on national television, to show the world how sad they really are.

    Here in the UK a couple of decades ago, we had a spate of thugs enjoying the sport of "Queer bashing", putting several guys in hospital.
    Before it ended up in a murder, an investigative team of journalists rounded the culprits up and put them in the media spotlight.
    It surprised most people (certainly not including me), that the ringleaders were closet gay.

    As far as I know, none of what is happening in the US is happening over here..... Perhaps my head is in the sand bucket. I hate to think so.
     
    kinulpture and KathyL like this.
  17. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    9,444
    Likes Received:
    2,522
    Eighty percent of both democrats and republicans, apply their morality to everyone else, but seldom themselves, and hate their opponents, more than they trust their own political party. I'd rather laugh with the sinners, than cry with the saints, as they count their money all the way to bank, and one in four still claims the sun revolves around the earth. The legacy of Malthus, is that testing our fucking DNA is now the most reliable way to determine how anyone votes, and Social Darwinism has been reduced to Animal Husbandry, thanks to Militant Atheists destroying the English language, and helping Fundamentalist to censor half of reality.

    Donald Duck rigged the election, and America's response has been to watch more cartoons.
     
  18. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    3,900
    Likes Received:
    2,206
    To be fair, I checked out your page. They're calling no males allowed in female sports "anti-trans". They're calling refraining from instructing children in pubic schools that it's okay to change genders "anti-trans". They're calling disallowing partially transitioned from using the public communal bathroom designated for the gender they haven't attained yet "anti-trans". Etc.

    Is that anti-trans? Or just pro general welfare?

    They distort these things because they want unsuspecting people to believe trans people are being targeted. Because they want to get away with shenanigans. It's not honest. Trans people should only have the same rights and privileges as non trans people. They don't get a pass. Trans people ultimately usually pass as the gender they've transitioned to and don't raise red flags by doing things like showing off a penis in spaces designated for women to feel safe. But wannabes and pretenders take advantage of lax control and terrorize people like that's cool. If that weren't the case then normies wouldn't be seeking laws to prevent that abusive stuff.

    It's just common sense.

    I didn't see one "anti-trans" law in that hodgepodge.
     
    Timsk likes this.
  19. KathyL

    KathyL Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    1,509
    Granted, there need to be protections to ensure fairness, but blanket bans are not fair, and are indeed anti-trans. Fairness would have each sport's governing body, in consultation with doctors, physiologists and kinesiologists, determine who is or isn't eligible, based on genuinely relevant criteria. For example, in most sports, keeping testosterone levels at or below female levels for a year or two before competing will ensure that the trans athlete has no advantage. If, in a particular sport, that is not enough, then the sport's governing body should be able to demonstrate what specific advantage the trans athlete has under those conditions and should create alternative criteria. The goal should be fair competition, not to prohibit trans athletes from participating. Get the politicians out of it and let athletes govern themselves.

    Nobody "changes genders", and nobody is teaching that. A trans person is trans from birth. Their gender is what it is from birth. What makes them trans is that the sex organs that the doctor saw at birth do not reflect their actual gender. All that changes when a trans person transitions is their presentation, their name, their identity documents. Sometimes their body. Confining people, kids in particular, to the gender that was assigned to them at birth and prohibiting them from expressing their true gender is torture. Kids should not be forced to do that, and yes teaching them that they must not transition is anti-trans.

    Some of the anti-trans-kid laws that have been passed are truly barbaric. Luckily court challenges are starting to overturn them. Forcing kids to endure the wrong puberty and experience irreversible changes to their bodies, just to satisfy some uninformed politician's idea of "normalcy" is cruel. Denying parents the right to make medical decisions on behalf of their kids should be deeply offensive to anyone who values parents' rights.

    Because it is. Where I live, public toilets have stall doors. Civilized people close them when using the facilities. The "problems" you are trying to prevent are rape, sexual assault and voyeurism. So pass laws against those activities! Oh, wait, we already have them! Civilized countries prohibit problematic actions, not specific people. How many incidents of assaults were there in public bathrooms last year? Considering the hundreds of millions of bathroom visits in that time, the number will be surprisingly low. Now count how many of those assaults were committed by trans people? Any at all? I bet you could count them on one hand with fingers left over. Trans people are not the perpetrators of bathroom assaults; they are far more likely to be the victims.

    So, yes, prohibiting trans people from using the public bathroom of their true gender is anti-trans. The purpose is to harm trans people, not to protect others.

    Nobody's welfare is protected by any of the measures we see in Republican-controlled states. No one's life is better as a result of them. The only purpose is to harm trans people, especially trans kids. So, yes, it is anti-trans.

    If the problem truly is wannabes and pretenders, then pass laws against wannabes and pretenders. If someone impersonates me to commit a crime, charge them with fraud for the impersonation in addition to the other crimes they commit. Don't prosecute me for being impersonated.
     
  20. princess peedge

    princess peedge Members

    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    OMG people don't undergo gender transition to gain access to bathrooms for nefarious purposes. No one is transitioning to dominate girls' sports and assault children in bathrooms. It concerns me that this routinely needs to be pointed out. You're essentially advocating banning me from things all in the name of general welfare. Okay. Then let's ban guns for the general welfare. Trans women are just cis men in dresses and therefore dangerous in bathrooms? Okay, ban cis men from bathrooms. Male-bodied individuals are too developed to compete in girls' sports? Allow them to transition younger.

    But, see, none of that is under discussion. Because, despite your best efforts, none of us are convinced this is about the general welfare. This is clearly about punishing trans people for being trans.
     
    KathyL likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice